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VoiceOverInternetProtocol

You can verbaly communicate - talk to each other - using the Internet.
[fr] Vous pouvez communiquer verbalement - parler les uns avec les autres - en utilisant Internet

see [fr]voir WikiTalks

You can chat. [fr] Vous pouvez entrer dans un salon de discussion

But you can also simultaneously and commonly work on text, even work together simultaneously on one wikipage. In a working situation like that verbal communication is effective as a second, rather secondary and fast communication level. A corrective, not more. There is rare and effective verbal communication.
[fr] Mais vous pouvez aussi simultanément et communément travailler sur du texte, même travailler ensemble simultanément sur une page wiki. Dans un contexte de travail, la communication verbale est efficace et très rapide. Voir aussi WikiConférence?.

Examples:
[fr]Exemples :

Commonly working on text.
[fr] Travailler communément sur du texte.

Browsing commonly is imaginable as well.
[fr] Naviguer communément est tout aussi bien imaginable

More thoughts about it on: [fr] Pour en savoir plus

how

There are several VOIP applications including:

Discussion

I really think this is important, and it MIGHT be doable immediately. By immediately, I mean in the next 2 weeks, it’s possible we can mostly have everyone who’s computer is capable, working VoiceOverIp? configurations.

It doesn’t seem easy to me, and we may need some outside help. But I believe that this is something that we can and should do.

It’s not quite the VertiBrain? system, but, well, that’ll take a bit of doing. :)

Mattis: “We tried it out. It improves working speed x 100. Believe me - it’s good for you.”

Links I’ve found so far:

  • Voice over IP wiki!
  • Shtoom - Free (Liber) Python Voice-Over-IP client
  • DivMod - the makers of Shtoom, also run a network. Seems they let you have free calls to anyone (as long as they’re on the Internet- 3cents/minute for normal telephone calls), but it’s invite only. Can we find an invite?
  • Free World Dial-up - seems they only let you have free calls with other members, though…

Still investigating…

In the long run, we want real-time transcription from voice to text, with the text flowing into the IRC room or whatever, and the ability to search all the rooms for people talking about “foo,” and,…

Actually, I don’t know why IRC doesn’t have that already. Why can’t you perform an IRC-wide search, for people who used word X recently? (In channels that want to be indexed, that is…) I can imagine a bot performing indexing in real-time, and then people being able to say: “Send me an alert when such-and-such word is spoken somewhere…”

Hmm…

OneBigSoup!

I recently had the same idea for wiki- “Send me a note whenever a given word appears fresh in a page…”

Hmm, what are you aiming at? chatting with voice, something like paltalk? controlling your PC through voice (I guess not as it is not voice over IP)? a bit more description is required on this page…

Ah, right.

Mattis is on a crusade in IRC to get us all to use Voice-Over-IP to talk with each other.

So, instead of always talking with text we type in, we’d also have a layer of hearing each other, and talking with our voices.

I honestly don’t know how it’s going to work out- we rely a lot on the written logs. People leave messages to each other in the written logs, for them to pick up 6 hours later.

Obviously, with 2004 speech->text, that’s not going to work so well.

But regardless, there are times, especially in group discussions, where having the voice is a ton faster than just having text.

We’ll see how it goes.

There are lots of existing voice chat programs allready (google for voice chat), I think most major instant messaging program are now poviding voice and video options. You just need a sound card, a microphone and a headphone/speaker and an internet connection. Note that I’m no expert in these things, I’m more like in the “I’ve tried once with a friend” category. There are lot of addons for instance for icq, robots browsing etc…. Also look at the tool for voice and video conference which provides black board and such.

So am I. I tried skype with my neigbor. When you have it installed and running it happens that people call you. So I spoke to a nice guy in Grenoble a couple of times and Teenagers from Poland buzzed me up too. It was fun. What a powerful tool I thought putting my skype username on some of my wikihomepages. A while ago ThomasKalka (he’s the CoForum? admin) called me. Get tightvnc, he said. I downloaded and installed it. He gave me an IP and a password. I inserted these in tightvnc and up came a Coforum page that Thomas and I could edit simultaneously. We tried it on a Gründerwikipage as well. We could speak and hear and type simultaneously. Not “somehow”, no, it worked perfectly after we got used to the little lattency it has. Some days later Thomas called up again and we tried on teamspeak. Very good that one as well.

Yeah, that’s basically what we want.

We’re looking around. There’s GnomeMeeting?, there’s a few things…

We’re totally open to suggestions.

Does Jabber have a voice system? I dunno. We’ll find out.

We just want it to be Free, as in freedom and all that.

I think that VoiceOverInternetProtocol is misleading as Voice over IP relates more to attempts to replace the existing phone network by an IP network. I think what you are after voice conference tools.

A conference is something with three or more participants. It takes quite some discipline not to run over the other with words when you are by two already. The other one is thinking about the text and is writing. It’s like excange of spoken words for some seconds and then silence, short question, short answer, silence again, like that. By three or more it gets more difficult and takes more discipline. I guess the main application of it will be by two, which is not a conference.

That seems strange to me- won’t we all want to be able to talk and hear each other?

Absolutely, sure. I just mean I suppose that using it in two will be the most effective way. I say that after my expierience of using it half an hour twice with Thomas. The interesting part is not the blabber, but using it as a communication layer for working together on wikitext. Teaching is another thing where I imagine this would speed up things enormously.

I have facilitated telephone conferences with maximum participants at 22 people. This can get quite hectic. I used the RoundTable? approach to facilitating the meeting. People spoke in order (a predifined list of attendees, modified at the meeting with absences and new folks) thus it was less chaotic and gave people a voice in the meeting. It seemed to work well.

I like this idea - being able to communicate on multiple levels. Joi Ito and folks were working on similar things last year, but I haven’t heard much lately… http://joi.ito.com/archives/2003/02/13/a_happening_on_emergent_democracy.html

BrianTempleton? was working on getting his VoIP working, last I talked with him; I’m working LocalNames, and for some strange reason, talking about voting, right now. {;D}=

Is it worth it if we can't archive?

In the long term I would love to just talk to other people who are currently online rather than write in ThreadMode on the wiki; for me, talking is much faster than typing.

But I think the main problem is that the conversation wouldn’t be archived. In many cases I’d probably end up just talking with the other people, which is great for me, but not as great (in my opinion) for the rest of the world as producing a written conversation that others will be able to quickly read and join (i.e. a wiki page).

(in addition, personally I can’t really read/think and talk at the same time; so it would be hard for me to either read or write on the wiki while carrying on a continuous conversation (although a few spoken words here and there separated by silences would work) but I think many other people don’t have that difficulty as much).

Once we have good free software for voice recognition, though, I’m all for it. I’m not sure that that exists yet, but I’d love to be surprised.

In the meantime, may as well give it a try anyway.

One year ago, I used what we called Wikiconférence just to finish and adjust the content of a website we created for a small company of voip. The usage was quite simple and stupid (not to think !) : coordinate, make some decision and achieve content through a conversation between a local dealer based in sweden and 2 persons based in Paris. We could read, talk via VOIP and archive the written conversation on CraoWiki? (which has been used as a draft wiki to create the content of the website). As any conference call a leadership was necessary to avoid conflict version. Bayle, these few words to let you know I would be really excited and interested in testing such usage with voice recognition (and why not Jabber intergration). For the moment, still awaiting DSL in Normandie to test Sip [SipWiki?]…

I’m not sure, but I think SIP is VoIP, or there’s some close relationship between the two. When I downloaded my VoIP code, the user interface included a bunch of stuff about SIP, at any rate.

Yes SIP is VoIP ;) I previously wanted to specify that H323 protocol seems to be less lighther? It works here on my modem… (about 30 ko) so I can keep any wikiconference without very heavy images in SVG (they cut the conversation). On some sip forum or on the xten website [1] I read it’s recommended to have a minima of DSL connection. So I’m sorry Lion but I will have to wait (until August I think for the DSL, my voice could be repaired before…) to test such an user interface !

I talked with a friend who’s big into VoIP, and he has a friend who is intensely into it. My friend (Brian Parnell) is going to see about hooking me up with this other guy, who hosts these servers that I have no understanding of.

End Result: We may have the SIP servers and help that we need to get up and running. Once we figure it out, we can teach it to other people.

Notes from the conversation:

  • There’s another free one besides Shtoom, but he couldn’t remember the name.
  • "Asterisk" is a free PBX server, and it’s very much possible for me with a Linux box and DSL connection to serve with it.
  • FreeworldDialiup.com is something we should be looking into.
  • There are phones for $60-$120 dollars that have ethernet ports on the back, and can be programmed to automatically establish a connection with one of these servers.
  • Alternatively, there are services that you can call with your normal phone, and it turns into stuff that works with these networks. It is very cheap.
  • Something about a “k-phone” and a “g-phone” - a mystery to me.
  • “Read VoIP sites.”

BrianTempleton? says he’s gotten sound out of his shtoom install with "sipomatic", which seems to be connected with the concept of a [simon.morlat.free.fr/doc/manual.html “LinPhone?”] (link banned) - don’t know much about this.

Since bpt has gotten it to work, it shouldn’t be long before he’s able to help me get it working, and then maybe I’ll have the know-how to attempt an Asterisk install, and then we can start talking.

Cool. Skype is getting updated every couple of days. New versions include a call out system you have to buy an account for. “If it’s not free it doesn’t exist.” But taking a look at it and thinking about if one couldn’t make it exist by making it for free is kind of a duty.

I have Skype running on two computers, one running on windows XP (Skype ID: mattismanzel), one running Linux Fedora 2 (Skype ID: mattismanzel1). It works very well on both. The linux version lacks a features (the chat function) and is a little bit buggy it seems to me.

The amazing thing is the search engine. In the advanced features you can specify mail, homepage, birthday, language and many other things, literary all the entries of personal profile. People mostly leave these entries blanck or enter false data, but some do not. You also can enter your office-, home-, and mobile-telephone number. Clicking these it directly takes you to call up the person there - in case you have a payed account ;).

This should be open and for free. How could that be done?

My technical knowledge on this issue is low, but I should wonder a lot if it shouldn’t be possible to rewite such a program, so that it “exists”. This all has to do with servers and bandwidth I guess. One should have at least one server in every local telephone zone or a way to distribute the serverload on all the different clients - like freenet does it (technically the wrong way to put it - correct it directly please - but you know what I mean, do you?)). This would be preferable to central local servers. When local servers are inevitable there should be voluntary contribution to finance them. Say I pay 5 € to support the local server for Berlin. It is most obvious that with a little bit of contribution (far far less than your telephone bills are ;)) you’d get free global telephone communication. From everywhere to everywhere for nil! Some people who earn money on telefoning might not like this, yes. So what? If it’s not free it doesn’t exist. It’s all about making it exist. It’s about hope and good Zauber. Imagine the headlines. Imagine what people think, when they hear that there is a bunch of folks successfully setting up free global communication. Imagine this works. Where are the people who might be interested to get this going? This isn’t OpenSource? then anymore but OpemSpeach?.

The search function could be usefully extended to interests, wikipages probably with a lot of the dynamic OneBigSoup stuff in it. But there are some functions allready in Skype, the basics already exist. It’s rather little useful but I can for example look up who is having birthday the same day as I have living in St. Petersburg.

Important is I can - when the profile of a person and the webpage the person linked to pleases me - gradually approach this person. I can send an email, send a chatmessage on the integrated chatsystem, send a request to see when if the person is online, and finally I can call the person.

There is something big about that.


Someone buys the accounts for telephoning out? It might be tempting. But maybe not. Maybe this will be like with Nupedia and Wikipedia. The Skypefolks whose business model failed finally say: ok, use it. it’s yours! Who knows? Maybe even the name will mean something honorable sometimes as the first all-free global communication system.

“Yes, but it is free”, I can hear them say.

No. It makes hierarchy. It is free between computer users but if communication extends to a regular telephone user it devides people in those who payed and others who did not. This is why it will not work. This diminishes the Zauber to about zero. This has to be done different, then it will work.

Ok, 5 € I payed. If I pay 10 € there will be money to buy some local telphone lines so that non computer users could be called up on their regular phones, when I pay 15 € all can also call up mobile phones. I would do that, many would, many will get a computer and will simply not use regular phones anymore. That’s pretty serious for telephone companies and other “keepers of things that do not exist”. We still depend on their (“non-existing”) dsl lines. This will be next on the list of thing to be made exist.

It will start in areas where people are clever enough to set it up and where enough people contribute financially to it. Some work to be done, right. Where are those who might help on it?

On skype: http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=24598

I started a thread on the skype forum: http://forum.skype.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5626. I’m not sure this is the right way, but is there any other?

There is also http://www.voipuser.org/ who are establishing a free community funded VoIP project using SIP.

I’m running GnomeMeeting ; Address: callto: ils.seconix.com/lion@speakeasy.org ; It’s based on H.323, which, if I understand right, is something different than what’s popular right now. Anyone able to speak H.323 here?

Not me, not yet, but I have synaptics/apt working on a fedora 2. What do I have to install?

The irc #de:blogs and #blogs.de and plastic-wiki -folks got themselves a teamspeak server http://blogs.k-forge.org/index.php/blogs/teamspeak_voip_fr_blogger/. Tres chic!

FreeGlobalTeleCommunication

Hey Mattis! Skype is great, I am having a blast with it. :-) - and it would be cool to somehow interact with folks over at the VoipWiki? - http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php

I’ve started the world-jam-wiki after skyping with a musisian and realizing there seems to be a desire for it. And yes, all will be noded ;) voip-wiki: wiki-node

i’m looking for some recommendations on what kind of microphone to get.

The cheapest. I have it, It works.

Probably everybody knows anyhow but something seems to be going on about voip. On the google talk page it says “We look forward to the Google Talk client supporting Linux and Mac OSX in the future”. It uses a SIP protocol, seems to be open. is Gizmo a skype killer? For example: Call Mapping that shows the two points of the call on a world map. Pretty hivemindish, innit? ;) Gizmo (download it here) is out for win, mac and Debian, the Debian version even installs on Ubuntu but doesn’t work alright there yet. It’s only a few weeks to wait ‘til it will, I guess. Install Gizmo please and add your ID to your homepage.

It’s not live, real-time, it’s a cast, but it could be live (almost). wiki-radio

callto:+2 slashes above made the page not work, I fixed that. Maybe we should try the H.232 thing Lion mentions.

VoIP applications are:

maybe we can convince the developers of the most open of them to build a push-to-talk configureability into it - or even hack it ourselves? WengoPhone seems to be the candidate to me.

Ekiga former gome-meeting is going to be part of Ubuntu Dapper (coming soon). No windows version yet, no mac version in sight, but clean.

When I first heard (Ryan Singel, Wired, Apr, 03, 2006) of Zfone (Secure Voice over IP: Zfone by Philip Zimmermann) , I thought it was yet another VOIP client. But the FAQ says it’s a back-end that works with any standards-compliant VOIP client (such as X-Lite, Gizmo, and SJphone), but not Skype.

I like the SideSystemsFirst quality of it. Rather than one big monolithic all-singing, all-dancing app that does voice, text, encryption, etc., it’s split up into a web browser, a wiki server, a VOIP client, and a voice encryption tool. And if I don’t like any one of them, I can swap it out in a jiffy without affecting the other parts.


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Define external redirect: BrianTempleton GnomeMeeting VertiBrain VoipWiki LinPhone CraoWiki CoForum WikiConférence Skype RoundTable OpemSpeach Gizmo VoiceOverIp OpenSource SipWiki

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