The troll with whom we had a very long fight on MeatballWiki has returned. It was no discussion, because that person showed intense disregard for what we were talking about at the time, or at least failed to say what he/shw wanted to say in any understandable way. The pages were full of links to other pages, all of them not existing, inviting other people to join. I think all of these pages were eventually deleted and are now expired.

It all started with the claim that the term online community is bogus, and involved power struggles, trolls, politics as usual, and a whole lot more. All in all it was very boring and tiring.

I suspect that the person involved in this is also involved in http://develop.consumerium.org/. If you want to talk about the stuff I deleted, please go there. If you want to see what I deleted, check DeletedPage.

I want a new blog entry for our blog. :)

Things I'm thinking about putting into it.

If there's something you think should appear that isn't here, speak up now. (Or, if you think there's something that shouldn't be here, that should be removed, speak up as well.)

I aim to write this entry before Seattle night's up, and show it here for reworking and comment.

Then there will be a 24 hour period for comment, stopping, whatever, and then we post, if everyone's more or less in agreement.


Nobody's said anything, so I'm assuming this list is okay. I want to write the blog entry soon, but I'm having a guest over soon for some TeachingByPairProgramming.

It looks like tomorrow, or after the guest leaves, that I'll be writing the entry, unless someone else takes it on.

take your time, there's no rush..

Uh, well, if you wait a week, then a week's stuff happens, and then you need to work in a week's stuff, and then by the time that's talked about, you've got another week's stuff to include, and…

Blog post in progress:

Lots of things talked about in the past couple weeks.

MattisManzel is working on getting us to use VoiceOverInternetProtocol. As we work to achieve it, or some other Free (Liber) conference calling system, we wonder: "If we just speak with spoken words, who's going to find us by Google?" Our HiveMindTheory says that Visibility is important. We'd be invisible, because google can't index recordings, and we don't have good speech-to-text software yet. We want to use both text and speech, and we don't know what will come. We decide to try out speech. We also investigate ConferenceManagementSoftware.

We reconsidered our ideas about WikiOrBlog software. We originally thought that making a wiki and a blog the same exact software would be good, because the technical underpinnings of them are so similar. But we've come to realize that technical plumbing do not make TheMedium. Rather, it's the UserInterface. Would we want to make blogs use wiki interface? Or would we want to make wiki use blog interface? No. Let's keep blogs and wiki distinct, at least at the level of the UserInterface.

We also talk about the idea of a "GroupUserInterface," which is the OneBigSoup idea of a "GroupServer," but taken to the level of real-time interactions. You could combine IRC chat windows, Jabber windows, shared real-time document editing (like SubEthaEdit), and shared web browsers (see LowTechSharedWebBrowser) in a UI description. And then the UserInterface is a place that people can go to.

BayleShanks writes ABusyDevelopersGuideToWebStandards, with special emphasis on XML-RPC and SOAP. This is a guide-post for programers who wants to know the basic ideas behind web technologies, in programmers' own PlainTalk. SunirShah wrote about UbiquitousComputing?; LionKimbro followed with UbiquitousComputingForComputers: virtual machines everywhere, and being able to easily address and communicate code to code, regardless of where it lives.

We've had a lot of VisualLanguage the past few days. We're frustrated by the difficulty of coupling SVG and PNG images. We've talked a bit in IRC about a special server (a "GraphicsServer??") that you could upload SVG to. The server would then automatically convert it into other formats, as needed. So, you could serve not just the original SVG, but PNG, GIF, or JPEG images as well. We like this, because we like groups of people being able to edit stuff, and SVG is ideal for the images we make.

We've recognized that different wiki do things in different ways, what we call a WikiProcess. Are we TheWikiWay? There are people who say they follow "TheWikiWay," but do things very differently than we do. We flirt with the idea of writing down our ways, "The CommunityWikiConsensus." We didn't make a decision, but we did articulate our WikiJoiningScript- a JoiningScript being how people, formally or informally, come to join a community.

We've also written down WikiAsYouLearn: the concept of taking notes for others, and ourselves, as we learn a subject. Not many people do it now, even though it is clearly helpful, not only for ourselves, but others as well. Perhaps people just haven't thought to do it? On the subject of education, we also talk about TeachingByPairProgramming, which LionKimbro has had success with.

We've thought a lot recently about voting: VotingIsGood, VotingIsEvil, ArrowsParadox?. We want to point out the problems that come from voting. We want to say, "Voting is not Democracy, voting has a way of seeming self-legitimizing, when actually it isn't." But we also recognize it as a tool for moving along.

We've noticed a dilemma that large organizations face (LargeOrganizationsDilemma): "Do we interact with the Internet public, or not?" Interacting with the Internet public means more than just handing out pamphlets. People seem to want to participate, these days. If the org doesn't allow for participation, the public will join an organization that does. Or they'll make their own public organization, bottom up. Either way, there is a feeling of self-annihilation to the old organization.

We've also talked about Money, in VirtualMoney, and MoneyMoney. Some of our members want to make a world Internet currency: the eTerra. Some members aren't so sure. There are a lot of opinions and perspectives. No solid conclusions accepted yet.

This is a long blog post. We'll try to follow a philosophy of "Release Early, Release Often," so that blog posts aren't so insanely large.

How's that?

Stuff to take out? Stuff to put in? Different order? What?

I wrote this really quick, so it can't be perfect.

I'll clock it for Jul 2nd, 11:00PM PST. That is, 24 hours and 1 minute into the future from now. :)

As usual, at the slightest objection, and we delay posting. It's totally cool: We want something that we like and are proud of.

I'm not really convinced of the WikiOrBlog question. ;) The rest is ok.


How about:

We reconsidered our ideas about WikiOrBlog software. Blogs and wiki have very similar technical underpinnings. Should they have the same UserInterface? Some people think yes, others think no. Would we want to make blogs use wiki interface? Or would we want to make wiki use blog interface? Merge them into one interface? We didn't reach a conclusion.

How about that?

Sounds good!


A bit long- I need to either write shorter entries, or write them more often, or both. ;)

The first is right and applies to me too, the latter: I don't know if we'll make it.

Define external redirect: ArrowsParadox GraphicsServer UbiquitousComputing

EditNearLinks: SunirShah UserInterface MeatballWiki