Lot’s of things I need to come back to from our recent activities here. But, I wanted to let MattisManzel know that http://eartwiki.org/cgi-bin/hive/WikiWoodstock/WikiNetWikiIdeas
“WikiNetWikiIdeas” actually looks pretty good.
I wanted to ask Mattis about the idea of connecting non-oddmuse, and/or non “Hive” wikis into these rolls or RSS. What do you think about that, Mattis?
Absolutely. I’ve been trying on s-23-wiki: recent near changes and s23-wiki: wiki-net changes quite a while ago. We should make OneBigSoup, definitely. Two or more soups are simply not that much fun as one.
As far as I got it there are three prerequisites for wiki-engines to be fully wiki-net compatible.
I’d be very interested in figuring out what other engine(s) come(s) closest to this. Maybe we can make a little table telling about wiki-net compatibility.
Mattis, thanks for laying that out.
From what I can tell so far, other engines come close to doing some, but not all of what you are talking about. I am almost starting to think that there might be somethign that could be part of software like WikiGateway, that could enable this from the outside. Kind of like how WikiPut? amd WikiCopy? are scripts that are able to do things with wiki content. We might be able to create code that can filter content, like recent changes from different wikis to make it more uniform. And, we might be able to filter content to some degree so that it is transcludable between engines. Then, we might be able to create a sort of psuedo WikiEngine that outputs DayPage? sets in a way that each engine can easily use. This might be possible for the most widely-used WikiEngines, anyway.
The interesting thing I’ve noticed is that most WikiEngines have a way to create and include “templates”. I’ve noticed this in MoinMoin, DokuWiki, MediaWiki, InstikiClone, SocialText and commercial WikiSpaces.
Also, we should try to anticipte the future of WikiSyntax. Will many wikis continue to use CamelCase (probably). How likely is it in the next 5 years that thee will be a sginificant migration to WikiCreole. Stuff like that.
All of these variables, part of the TechnoSocialGap, lead me to believe that evolving a tool like WikiGateway, that can serve as a content translator and mediator between wikis, might be the way to go for us.
I’ve done a lot of studying of design by way of BioMimicry? ove the past few years. Looking at how nature solves problems, and using/emulating the best Patterns that have emerged in nature. Nature has lots of useful and sustainable ways for diverse processes to mix together, and not just co-exist, but also become mutually benficial. Sometimes these SymbioticRelationship? patterns are facilitated by a third organism. This third organism may have started out barging in as a parasite bent on leeching off of the two original organisms. But, somehow over time it may have found symbiosis more effective.
A WikiGateway evolved the way I describe above could become like a “symbiotic beneficial parasite”, who’s activities generate PostiveExternalities?, if done right and carefully. These types of “symbiotic beneficial parasites” are the things that make mega flora and megafuana, adn the earth’s whole ecosystem possible. That is just a metaphor, but an auxilliary application like this might be the most natural pathway to “OneBigSoup” ecology. Instead of campaigning among all WikiEngine project and users to standardize among themselves, it might be possible to modify a technology that was made to mount and engage wiki content (Wikigateway) and then use it to process and out put content, in a way that is beneficial for both us and for group of people that the content comes from?
I’m not sure I understand your point that…
I’m probably just missing something, so I’ll make a few quick statements that should allow someone to correct me.
… that we are all also familiar with.
One additional point regarding your …“the right amount of content”…
Here here! (re: the date pages being an essential component)
Interesting discussion so far. It would be informative and educational for me to see people weigh in on what they think are the essential components for wikis, and for InterTwingling? content across wikis.
Of course, I agree that the DayPages? are great, and Mattis and others have done some very interesting things with them.
However, one thing that I’ve noticed in my adventures exploring different WikiEngines is that OddMuse is almost the only WikiEngine I can think of that has this feature. Maybe I’m wrong about that. Please correct me if you know of a WikiEngine that has DayPage? functions like those found in OddMuse. The only other WikiEngien? that I’ev sen that has DayPage? sets that are somewhat similar is DokuWiki (example: http://www.wikidesign.ch/playground/blog). This is still not exactly the same thing. DokuWiki also has a Calandar, too. The DokuWiki Calendar can colelct and list dates that you list with bullet points on pages. Example:
And, it has a similar function to action=collect
Also, the larger Meta-Issue that I see for the WikiNet is that it is impractical to try and get so many people to change their WikiEngine and WikiSyntax. It is my opinion that it is just not going to happen. I also believe that it is impractical to try and convince many people to radically change the way they currently use their wikis. Many wiki communities probably have a deeply ingrained set of social and cultural patterns, and they will be unlikely to change them at the behest of outsiders.
This leads me to think that a set of scripts could be created that can “interface” with different WikiEngine, that can put out content that is similar to WikiNetHiveChanges, but is not necassarily DayPage? based. Possibly it could instead be based upon the code that handles RecentChanges for each WikiEngine. The reason that I suggest that is that all WikiEngines universally have RecentChanges. And, most of them output a feed for their RecentChanges.
So, I can envision that WikiGateway might be a server-based application, and have “plugins”, that are bascially add-on scripts that work with each WikiEngine, that allow it to output WikiNetChanges in a way that can be used directly by the WikiEngine. People who host wikis could download and install this version of WikiGateway, and use it to do things like:
The point here is to shift the focus from trying to do the impossible (get everyone to change) to the possible (build bridges between disperate technologies and processes). Eventually, the same tool could also interface with blog and ContentManagementSystem software. It could also let you look through content by Semantic context. And, it could use some open standards to output recombined content in formats like PDF, DocBook, etc, if you wanted to create publications from Wiki content.
I need to take a long look at WikiGateway to see if it can be the basis for this type fo thing.
Check out this thread:
Basically, actual collaboration only happens among groups of under 25. Collaboration among groups over 25 people is a “stigmergic” collaboration.