MeatballWiki has been active, and is presently refocusing on mission, which SunirShah is clarifying.

HelmutLeitner & I and JamBaltine were having a detailed conversation, and we think it’s appropriate to relocate it. The question was asked, “Where should we relocate to?” I suggested CW as a possibility.

Traditionally, we have talked about things such as wiki notekeeping organization, the nature of reason & rationality, programming, logistics, the “hive mind,” and various other things.

Increasingly, my inner compass pointed me towards TeilhardDeChardin, the ImagiReal?, the spiritual, teleology, and so on. I made a judgment (perhaps erroneous) not to talk about such things on CW, because those are things that the CW community “didn’t sign up for,” so to speak. I think the furthest it ever got was with the FiveWorldsMandala.

This message is just a feeler to see how y’all feel about my breaching into those territories here; The conversation on MeatballWiki:SocialAutonomy certainly does, especially at the point we reach near the end.

Subjects talked about (and some links to related pointers) include:

The conversation has already demonstrated heightened emotion.

I’m requesting the judgement of everyone, but especially AlexSchroeder.

Also, if anyone has recommendations for ground rules for such conversation, I’d love to hear those as well.

You know that I am a slow mover, a conservative and sceptical person who suspects WordMagic everywhere. In addition to that, I basically told Friedemar to leave a few years ago and I hesitate to welcome anything that will bring him back in.

Despite my resentful nature, however, I cannot help but notice that dedicating this site to all things wiki is to know more and more about less and less until we know everything about nothing. If we don’t want to FishBowl this wiki, we need to figure out what topics it affords, what topics interest us. On an intellectual level I can see how in the early days of wiki it was seen as ground-breaking not only in how technical manuals and FAQ collections were written and maintained, but in how manuals were written, in how complex ideas were often better expressed as a PatternLanguage, how wikis might change traditional hierarchies and values, how wikis afforded a different way of organizing people in an information society.

And so I find myself intrigued after all.

Now let me head over to Meatball Wiki and read up on what has been going on over there. ;)

Edit: Hm… So much activity. I don’t know where to start!

I’d note the bottom of MeatballWiki:SunirShah, and for what I was talking about, MeatballWiki:SocialAutonomy.

The basis behind the “word magic” of saying that a person is universe is comparable (in English, at least,) to saying “That is pie,” given a slice of pie, or “That is clay,” given a piece of clay.

What’s at work in these examples is that “clay” or (to a degree) “pie” is a substance, a holographic whole. It doesn’t matter if one has just a piece of clay, or 10 tons of clay; We just call it “clay,” in order to refer to the coherence, or the self-similarity of it all.

So when I say “the person is Universe,” I am treating the universe (and the person) like clay. I am saying, “The person is the same fundamental substance as universe.”

I argue that it is more “correct,” on grounds of scientific monism (“There is one thing, the universe,”) rather than, say, dualism (“There are souls&minds, and there is stuff.”) Scientists should feel compelled by the monism, rather than resistant. I am not saying that a rock is as intelligent as you, but I am saying that intelligence and consciousness are modes of universal substance. I may be wrong about this (perhaps consciousness really is different,) but I will not be wrong because my science is mistaken.

What are the consequences of this?

They’re actually pretty far reaching. With an ethos of participation, we rightly include ourselves in the history of the universe. When the universe is all that is dead and inert, evolution ends with the BioSphere?. But by this model, evolution extends into the NooSphere. Furthermore, the human soul (or) the human heart is understood to be a natural phenomenon. Human imagination becomes a crucial actor in the drama of the universe.

When we’re just a “part” of the universe, our idea is that we’re something like an appendix. The real story of the universe is rocks floating about. There’s not much for us to do, and there’s no real point to doing anything. But when the universe itself has a soul, (and it does, factually speaking, at least in proportion to the degree that we have souls,) then we see that the universe is on an adventure of the imagination, and that the human heart is the bedrock of reality. Life is animated with every quark and atom in existence. We know that molecules feel, to some degree, in some way, some how, because we do.

I’m going to relocate the prior text.

Here’s the key passage:

…I cannot help but notice that dedicating this site to all things wiki is to know more and more about less and less until we know everything about nothing. If we don’t want to FishBowl this wiki, we need to figure out what topics it affords, what topics interest us.


Revisiting the MissionStatement may be a good idea, or perhaps making explicit some CommunityWikiThemes, or perhaps even just inviting people to write about what they’re thinking about, all in one gigantic mess, to see what themes emerge.

Define external redirect: ImagiReal BioSphere

EditNearLinks: HierArchy MeatballWiki NooSphere FishBowl SunirShah