T h i s--i s--i m p o r t a n t !

To get a glimpse on what “problem”, what “global manmade plague” we are facing I’d ugently ask you to watch two very informative videos that are for free on the internet. When you did so - and I assure you that you will see things basically different afterwards - I’d like you to silently answer a question to yourself, a question that you will anyhow uneviteably pose to yourself:

Who else than us is ever going to solve that problem as who else than us has the means to solve it?

We have a responsibility towards mankind on this issue.

You might think I sound pathetic. Just read these lines again when you’ve seen the videos and you will understand.

“Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve” (duration is 41 minutes)

“The Money Masters”

(duration is 3 1/2 hours!)

wikipedia-en: The money masters


Merci Mattis. Will take the time during this week-end. Currently working in a bank, I could (hopefully) now imagine have a better participation along time. I’d be interested in giving a bit more money on any wiki relpayment-research for tip-jar designing ? A “tip-jar design” could help in short term : not so much time to translate pages and articles like this [1] which could convince people to adopt bliki/wiki.

the first thing, we can learn from the money masters: there are two sums of money

  • the cash(our pledges)
  • the bank-money (our accunts)

if we need x percent from the cash to be able to withdraw by deposit, then what to do with the other (100-x) percent?

I don’t quite understand that sigi, not quite. Our and the conventional monetary systems are two pairs of shoes, yes. And they are incompatibel, I think, an interchangeability between them doesn’t make sense to me (anymore).

My conclusions from the (new) information I gained from The money masters is: War is a function of money. Only a new transparent and fair global monetary system will (probably) bring global peace. We can’t know this as we (humans) never tried. One thing is for sure: there is no chance for peace on this planet ever if it goes on the way it is. Helping to create global peace is what I’m interested in. Financing some software projects or whatever is nice and I might support it but it’s peanuts compared to that.

So, true: What is the idea behind it?” is the question to be answered before we can continue.

  • If it’s financing some software projects or whatever we can straightaway use Dollars or any other of the irrevertibly corrupt currencies. I will participate and might even give some a bit of soul, as I like “some software projects or whatever”. If we really do want to use a “new” currency for that we can stick to its interchangeability to conventional money - but it won’t be new. It will just be another name for what we already have. Lindendollars from SecondLife are an example for that kind of “new”.
  • If it’s new (without the “s) money that we want to go for it can’t be interchangeable to conventional money. Once changed conventional money to the new money there is no way back. In this case I’d give my life for it, well aware that there’s a bullet ready not only for me but for every single one of us here - we are not dealing with oponents as “Microsoft” or something, know? The old money exchanged to the new one gets kind of “devaluated” (which I guess practicaly only the national banks are allowed to do). But in theory and just in theory we could do something like:
  • Design a nice stamp saying: This bill (Dollar/Euro/whatever) has been irrevertibly exchanged to eTerra, a new global non-corrupt currency (url). Its former owner has been credited eTerra for it after giving it away to the public for free. If now I want to aquire something like 100 eTerras I take twenty 5 Euro bills, stamp them and through them down from the top of the Eiffel-tower or whatever (personal note to the legislation: I’m a fiction-writer and I’m just publically developing an idea for a short story here :) )

mattis, there is no opposition (contradiction, antagonism) between us . but i can’t explain it, my english …
to write a short story is a good idea :) . now, sea it from the point of do-ocracy or the wiki-way . hans just did a good account . now some questions are emerging . the buisiness of the hive mind is to come to a hive mind!

another movie about what only we have a chance to ever solve as only we have the informational system and the neccesary hacking abilities.

Monopoly men

talkled about we (geeks)

talked about we (humans)

what I mean here is we, you’ll know as you read it.

A movie obviously dealing with the “problem” with money, the conventional one, will be released in a week. Title: “America: From freedom to fascism” wikipedia:

Cool! A brilliant plain talk speaker, I think. Michael Parenti: “Globalism, terrorism, and conspiracy”, another video. I do not mean to discredit the USA btw, it just happens that I drop on some material that (also) concerns it. Europe, where I’m from, is obviously just as deeply involved with the “problem”. I call it “problem” as it is one.

That one I just watched.

There’s more [2].

You might wish to tell me that I’m getting off-topic (as if such existed for open minded people). Do so then.

You might also whish to talk about it. Or maybe think a little more and see a video again after some days. Ok then.

This is about communication, innit? It’s about community. It’s even, very directly about software it appeals to me. Let’s see.

What you say sounds right to me, Mattis.
This could be one of the few attempts to work out a solution to a (communication) problem …
we all keep reading and watching too many reports about it … and seldom get actioned by them … i hope this opportunity will not be missed.

Have we learned nothing? How can we even think of saving the World with yet another Bank? A Bank is a Cathedral (a Temple). Haven’t we known for millennia that Money Doesn’t Belong In A Temple? How can the World improve if we repeat the same mistakes that were made for centuries over and over again? Do we think Technology will make the difference?

a bank without money is nothing, i learned .

It seems that sigi is more Aware than many. A Bank without Money is Nothing. Quite good. Can Nothing hurt you? The Answer is not Trivial. This one is for you, sigi: If a Bank without Money is Nothing, what is Money without a Bank?

money without a bank is cash .

So what do you need in order to Buy Food, Clothes, and everything you need? Is it a Bank or is it Cash? What do you need to pay for your Shelter? Is it a Bank or is it Cash? What will allow you to Go wherever you want? Is it a Bank or is it Cash? And if something might possibly allow you to Evade the Control of the Mighty in this Completely Informationalised World, what is it? Is it a Bank or is it Cash?

Hmm, terminology. Bank. The criminals ganging up on Jekyll Island in 1910 already have carefully been searching to prevent the word “Bank” for their “creation”, their private bank (which in 1913 turned the Federal Reserve). Likely what is a big and nasty pretending to serve the people bank now, will not be called a bank - there is hundred of years old mistrust against banks - people ain’t (that) stupid. As I said before: I don’t think we want to be such a bank. We look for decentralisation of power, community participation and transparency to both insides and outsides. What we not do is denying the neccessity for a useable medium to transport posession over time and/or space - in other words money. If you only have fish and can’t exchange it to something more dureable you’ll soon have a problem. Embedding such a means of exchange in a system, creating an agreement on what it is and how it is treated is making a “bank”. It’s a bank. Let’s be bold and make a good bank. People will like that. ;)

Made the encyclopedia-of-injustice-wiki and the German Enzyklopädie-des-Unrechts-wiki to go a bit more Pop with it btw.

How many times have we tried to create Good Societies, Good Governments, Good Economies. What is left of those? Dust and Ashes. Since the Dawning of Days, the Powers of Evil are marshalling, assimilating or annihilating everything that is opposed to them. Democracy? Tyranny of the majority, at best, but nowadays even worse: Tyranny of those powerful enough to control the Masses, through Fear. And what is left of the Churches, those founded by Truly Holy Good People? Nothing but gigantic Systems to control the Masses through Fear, again. How can we overcome the Fear, its many faces? War? Hunger? The Chinese Government? The CIA? ECHELON? The list is endless. The System is Everywhere. Create a Bank (a System) and watch it beind assimilated. Or erased both from Existence and Memory.

Cool - ECHELON, hadn’t heard about it before. Another reason to act immediately instead of drowning in pessimism. And thanks for your honest comments.

Cool is an interesting way to put it. Orwell was a Prophet. 1984 is Here and Now, but Reality surpasses Imagination by far. Big Brother (the System, the Mighty) Is Watching You indeed. Always. Everywhere. Everything we say can and will be used against us. But the Masses are Blind. They believe its for their Good. For their Safety. Their Salvation. They won’t listen. They don’t want to Know. It’s all in front of our eyes, but nobody is Looking.

How could you defend the Good if you don’t know the Forces of the Evil? How could you prevent your Dream from turning into a Nightmarish Reality? What Shield have you against the neverending Greed of the Mighty? It seems to me that nobody even thought of asking this question.

taging, we should do it, it’s powerful.

What about a tag for “the shield” concept, Mattis?
I like “airbag” better: What airbags have we got against greed, whomever it comes from …

It seems that I’m wasting my Time, but let me give you one more clue. The Weapons of the Mighty are Powerful. Do you know them? I don’t think so. Let me tell you: one of Their Weapons is The Law. The Law Forbids you to make a Bank unless you have a licence. Do you believe They would ever give you a licence? Or do you believe that you can escape from the Judiciary and the Executive forever? Will you ever pull your Heads out of the Sand?

I can see how this is going to end. If the Admins of this place don’t wake up and raze your Bank to the ground for the sake of their own Safety, some of you will end up in Jail for money laundering and what not. And likely some of the Admins, too, for aiding and abetting.

I’d better leave you to your Fate.

airbag against greed: there are no rules here, no law . therefore no lawyers . it’s a play named fair play . the structure, which makes it work, is our wiki-tree . that’s our binding force . if you are out of the tree, no one will trust you .

Are you claiming that you are not a Person of Flesh and Blood living in a State with a Constitution, a Judiciary, and all that, but just a Virtual Entity with no Existence beyond the Virtuality of the Web? Now this is interesting - or it would be, if it were True. But considering the level at which the discussion is evolving, I rather assume that you are so naïve to believe that The Law cannot Prosecute you for your Actions within the Web. Ignorance and Blindness however are the last things that could Save you. And your wiki-tree will protect you as much or as little as Garlic or Crosses of Salt on your Doorstep.

it’s not forbidden to write down pledges in a wiki . you are only writing down some hypothetical numbers . where is the problem? but even, if you proclaim a world-currency, then where to claim it? perhaps a world government is the right place . uno? uno is not a world gouvernement . perhaps we are the right world government . perhaps our wiki-tree is .

Well, although it is very likely necassary for CommunityWikiBank to ultimately get a license to lend money in locations where it does business (depending on how the lending actually happens), these licenses are by no means out of reach. For instance see Prosper as one example of a peer to peer lending system. In the US, it is necassary for any lender to comply with state and federal laws. However, fundraising is a different story, and may end up being a less complex direction for CommunityWikiBank to steer towards. An example of peer to peer fundraising is Fundable

Perhapst it is, possible.

I was born in Berlin in 1960, the wall was built in 61. My early school years I spent in Neukölln, a working class quarter in the east of the western part of the city. School-classes rarely made little trips for some days within Berlin-West - Neukölln (which has no conjuction with Köln - Cologne btw) had a place for such trips in the west of Berlin-West close to the big lake that extends there. Lots of forrest, beautiful, a rather wealty area. I must have been something like seven or nine years old then. We stayed in this huge villa, taking excursions, recreation program for city kids, that stuff. The villa, I remember, had an architectonical speciality, a ledge of only a few inches depth and partly in about 5 feet above the ground that circumvented the entire building. For us kids it was the greatest pleasure to balance along this ledge. It was very difficult and took at least half an hour to reach the point where you started. There were cavettos and many more difficulties to overcome and none of us ever made the complete circle without falling down. I remember that we spent almost all of our free time with this game. It was fun and I remember it intensely. We were not told about the history of the house and it wasn’t but many years later that I realized that this villa is the so called “Wannseevilla” (Wannsee is the big lake nearby) where less than 30 years before I climbed around it Hitler and other mass-murderers had prepared and organized the Holocaust. It’s a memorial place nowadays. [3]

There is another villa. And it isn’t but a few weeks ago that I understood that the decisions taken there in 1910 when the Federal Reserve was prepared and organized in it (by J.P. Morgan, Vanderbill, Aldrych, Rockefeller and others) brought unimaginable suffering and death to millions of people. They can’t be compared and I don’t do so. Both are outsides of human imagination. But different to the one I climbed around as a little boy the consequences of the decisions taken in this villa remain and get worse every minute. It is the Jekyll Island Club House. Maybe I will go to visit it one day when it’s a memorial place as well. [4]

video: Masters of the Universe - The Secret Birth of the Federal Reserve

  • To the best of my knowledge, there are no laws against an individual lending money to another.
    • There are laws that govern the actions of Corporations, as there are governing the actions of individuals. In the domains of commerce, business, etc…, these laws form an “enforceable” set of rules that govern the actions of the parties to transactions. In general, these laws are designed to provide a “level playing field” for the “at arms-length” parties to a transaction, that can be enforced by an appropriate jurisdiction, should the principal parties fail to agree on how to conduct and conclude the transaction.
    • In short, if I choose to lend money to someone, I am perfectly free to do so. There are, of course, many laws that may be triggered by my lending action. If I do this for the purpose of making a Profit or of creating a Loss that I wish to claim as a deduction, then most countries (jurisdictions) have Income Tax laws that would apply.

An intersting source of information is They have a fine ftp-server for downloading movies. Much of what I found interesting receintly is on this server.

An interesting thinker and banker is Catherine Austin Fitts, her solari project for example.

I will have a pilot project using a version of the SolariInvestment? model as part of a larger local community project soon.

An interesting Interview with Ryan Fugger who started the Ripple project is in this podcast. Maybe we should rather go for Ripple than paypal?

Random links I found interesting researching money

‘n this ‘n this
Quote David Carry: with “a fire-axe”. Are we gonna decentralize that or not?

Here’s an example of a peer to peer bank strucutre that is in successful use in the US right now:

just adding here for genral discussion/information purposes

back to CommunityWikiBank

Define external redirect: SolariInvestment