Community wiki is not a average internet community - we have not had a good flamewar for over a year now - it is unusually peaceful. It does not provide us with good real life examples for our analysis of online communities, and it can lure us into thinking that all the bad things don’t happen so there is no use in thinking about them and building strategies to defend ourselves.

I agree.


Drawing fire easy if you can get a response, just ask a question that shakes long standing assumptions.

For instance:

  • If you were interested in starting a community where things operated more ‘fairly’ than pure Capitalism, would you say it would be important to protect profit by keeping PriceAboveCost?, or would it be better to design a system that somehow reduced consumer price until it meets the costs of production incurred by the owner (costs include wages BTW) so that profit approaches zero?
  • If you were stranded alone on an island, would employment be a goal or a hurdle to overcome? Why is it reversed in most larger communities?

Such questions anger people for reasons I don’t understand, but they are even more often simply ignored. We’ll see what happens this time. – PatrickAnderson

Herbert Brun said, “Peace is a need,” and he meant that it needs to recur. (That is, he embraced conflict.)

That said, I don’t understand how we’re “lured into thinking that bad things don’t happen;” That seems pretty radical to me. I don’t understand the need to militate here, either.

It seems to me that what has happened, is that we have all drifted out into different directions, a parting of ways.

I’ve gone into SaturdayHouse, AlexSchroeder into RPG-land, BayleShanks into grad work, I have no idea where SamRose went, – etc., etc., etc.,.

The closest I’ve come to collaborating with someone here the last few weeks, has been flirtation with the idea of working on RadomirDopieralski’s game.

Our time is our life, and our life is too valuable to spend on artificially invented drama.

If we feel a need to create a drama here, I would rather it be a quality, intentional drama, – like one of Alex Schroeder’s role playing games. Could make a game of communities? Role-play as if we were whole living communities?

Another idea, is to perform a ritual check-in. We could share what we’re doing, what we’re aspiring for, where we’re at in our life, what we’re thinking about, and so on.

What are we trying to do here? I won’t simply “fill in time.” Life is too precious.

Talk about “Throwing down a gauntlet!”

Perhaps we should take a moment to provide brief status reports and maybe even update our personal Plans, Objectives, and Goals statements?

For my part, I’ve been pounding away feverishly on one or other of the four WikiHive(s) that we’ve launched since Christmas. If there is any interest in hearing a bit more about why this is happening, I’d be pleased to post some comments.

P.S. While I’ve occasionally stated how impressed I am with the oddmuse software, Now that I am really into running “production” oddmuse systems, I’ve got to say that I’m even more impressed than ever, based on the much more extensive experience we’ve gained. In fact I really need to re-state my opinion that OddMuse is an extremely impressive piece of software! and re--iterate…

  • “Thank you, ever so much, Alex!!

Excellent. That’s exactly what I’ll do.

I need to get back to work, but I’ll see what I can get out here within 24 hours.

A longer version will appear on my blog, perhaps on my name page as well.

Promise that I did not disappear. I have had a bunch of people all hit me at once, and some personal life issues, that have kept me from CW and other regural haunts.

MarkDilley just deleted the page, I restored it, and suddenly got the joke. ;)

I know you’re busy SamRose. :D It’s ok.

We’re just having some sort of weird pow-wow here. But it’s good to hear from you.

I think the turning point for me personally was when I realized that the time I spent on political issues was largely wasted from a personal perspective. Reading things that don’t affect my real life, being angry at people I’ll never see, learning about issues I have no control over – and powerlessness breeds frustration. So I decided to stop reading political blogs, I hardly read the newspaper anymore, I haven’t watched the news on TV in years. And instead I “disappeared into role-playing land” as Lion said. :)

In terms of Community Wiki I have always been interested in the practical side of things. I was interested in ideas that were cool enough to try, simple enough to implement in a few hours, experiments in usability and wiki features, my favorite phrase was “proof of concept” – but as less such features come up in discussions, I participate less. That’s ok, I get to spend more time on other issues. But it explains why I’ve drifted away from CW. And I haven’t returned to MeatballWiki, either. I guess my wiki tech and usability inspiration currently comes from talking to Radomir and Daniel on #oddmuse.

I still watch RecentChanges, however! :)

I’ve been thinking about the update I want to make for a while, but I’m so wrapped up in myriad thoughts, there has been no essential unity to it. So, what we have here is fragments.

I am inspired by AlexSchroeder’s focus on the practical, and elimination of the “unaffectable.” I believe I have a lot to learn from this. At the same time, I feel a persistent reaching from within my soul, that I cannot extinguish. I do not believe it will ever cease.

Being a responsible father is wonderful but time-consuming adventure. My daughter Sakura is most precious in our family. Balancing between “I just need to implement this feature, …” …and… “…daddy, will you play with me,” is very difficult. Playing with Sakura is a joy. Watching her develop ideas is a joy. I am only disappointed when she asks me to beat the hard monsters in Super Mario Galaxy; I would never have approached my mom & dad to beat a hard monster in a game. (And I would have been met with a blank stare.) I consider that perhaps ours was the only generation where the kids were technological wizards. As both technology, and the practice of adapting new technology mainstreams, I suspect the culture of the whiz child (and the bamboozled adult) may end.

Most of my tech-inclined Saturday House friends are into an offshoot called “Six Hour Startup.” We have VC’s circling around the group, marketers, and various other entities needed to make a team effort work, to get a startup off the ground. These people are quite seriously.

I am remote, and somewhat alone. I have seen the Seven Samurai, and the Magnificent Seven; I have some ideas about how this plays out. I know how culture uses men. [1] I see this as a fools game: 1,000,000 sperm will launch, 1 will reach the egg. 999,999 units of productivity, lost. I have no interest in the Start-up culture; It is a waste for society. We have lost vision of the middle range in our all-or-nothing society.

My efforts coalesce about Spiritual Community. On the WikiSym trip, BrandonCsSanders, TedErnst, MarkDilley, and several others – on that trip, I met TomAtlee?, and was introduced to EvolutionarySpirituality, MichaelDowd, many other things. I (re-)discovered the enormous and awesome power of the human heart, of holistic thinking, of ritual life, which I hear the echos of, in role-playing games. [2]

I am performing a vast inquiry, in service of an entity that I believe wishes to be formed: A social organism in the service of the NooSphere, a spiritual community that is itself a tiny bulb of the larger organism of life, dedicated to the growth of the GlobalBrain and the GlobalHeart?. More specifically, we’d be developing technologies for the assistance of the HiveMind – developing software, group SoftTechnology, networking platforms, 3-D (yes, SamRose, I continue to hold the InterReality people in mind, – if you they can do enormous volumes of text efficiently in 3-D space, that’s very interesting to me), userinterface at the hardware and physical levels, as well as ambitious VisualLanguage art projects, etc.,.

I do not know what steps I need to take, to help this imaginary emerge into reality; I only know that I am called to do so. I have found a couple of other people who are inspired by this dream, and we are presently in a listening mode, trying to hear what the future calls for, and how we can reorient our lives and families to answer to the call.

I am visiting to DamanHur with PhilPatton?, my daughter Sakura, and perhaps MattisManzel in June, July, or August, Damanhur willing, for the duration of a week or two. The purpose of this trip for myself, is to expose my Sakura to an amazing testament of human capability, and to glean whatever wisdom I can, about how such a society can emerge.

I have been researching housing construction; It turns out that it is relatively easy for a small family to build their own house. It only takes 2-3 years. A few years ago, I would have thought, “Oh my God, that’s like – forever.” But now, it seems like almost nothing. I have begun imagining buildings for a spiritual community of technologists and connected families, to use as a base of operations for our service and explorations for the Greater Seattle area, the NooSphere, the web of life on Earth, and the ongoing project of our Universe.

I have no idea if this is possible, and this may amount to nothing. But if it amounts to nothing, then that’s little different than the nothing that would form otherwise. (I am open to suggested plans.) I believe I need to answer to the call of the spirit within myself, where the interior drama calls me to go, and either breech against whatever rocks life has intended me for, accomplishment of the dream envisioned, or something else, something I do not imagine.

I have reasons to believe that this can work, though, and that this call is an authentic call from life. Bizarre as it is, it is the only thing that really makes much sense to me. All other paths appear so immaterial to me, conventional though they are, and as much as they function for the people who live them.

Thank you, Lion.

Incidentally, if anyone in Europe is interested in joining our party, we’d be glad to walk with you. :) Or anyone who wants to fly to Italy.

The FederationOfDamanhur is in Northern Italy.

Maybe we’ll meet this summer. Would be cool. Live-drawing the promised dragon to Sakura and getting a live-drawn duck in return, yo’! Gift econony. eh?

What a nice thread this started. My update: I have finished a regular job - and now I have rather vague plans about doing contract jobs/starting something by myself. I have already one contract in perspective. Most of my time these days is sucked into improving the Perl libraries I use for my work and trying to build something like Rails scaffolding in Perl (InstantCRUD). I am also researching the subject of how to do Open Source projects efficiently and just reading about Social Software.

I am still inspired by When Collections of Creatives Become Creative Collectives - A Field Study of Problem Solving at Work - and the idea of helping each other in our individual projects. Do you need some help? I consider myself expert in Perl programming and user interface usability analysis.

DamanHur in summer would be a nice reason to visit italy ;) Community wiki is not a average internet community - we have not had a good flamewar for over a year now - it is unusually peaceful. It does not provide us with good real life examples for our analysis of online communities, and it can lure us into thinking that all the bad things don’t happen so there is no use in thinking about them and building strategies to defend ourselves.


Could the appearance of complacency and “peace” actually be an effective strategy for defending an online community?

Although it could initially invite “attack”, perhaps the vast majority of attackers would be surprised to see the community move into action to defend itself very swiftly? Surprised enough to decide that it would be too difficult to try and cause trouble here, for instance.

Perhaps we can put out a request to non-community members to come here and cause some form of trouble, if you feel that it’s too peaceful here?

I think we are just too obscure to attract trolls. Maybe if we had a better pagerank - or if we produced a page that could be put on Digg - that would be a test.

Good point. Or, if we were talking about politics, or other polarizing subjects. Like “this vs. that”.

DamanHur in summer could be a good reason to visit Italy ;)

The Nothing encroaches on CommunityWiki, and Atreyu seeks the hero who can regenerate the Childlike Empress with a new name, and Fantastica with new wishes.

A meeting named CommunityWikiIsTooPeaceful pleads for trolls to restore the world. SunirShah contemplates in the mines of MeatballWiki.

The ArgumentPyramids stand tall, proud, but silent; edifices of labor past. The PowerOfQuestions? freezes those at the Great Riddle Gate.

The people are present, but silence abounds.

Define external redirect: GlobalHeart PriceAboveCost TomAtlee PowerOfQuestions PhilPatton

EditNearLinks: PatrickAnderson SunirShah NooSphere MeatballWiki