sigi : module WikiVote de BayleShanks : c’est une partie géniale ;) . j’ai une question à poser à chaque membre du collectif: faut il un wiki ouvert et pas privé, que appartient au peuple wiki ? c.-à-d. faut il acheter le community·wiki ?
@ bayle : can that be asked ?

mattis : Je ne comprends pas. Le wiki du bayle, qu’est-ce qu’il fait? - 2005-06-16

sylvie: sigi peux-tu reformuler ta question ? on est en panne pour te répondre :)

sigi: sicher;) . bayle hat eine einfache abstimmungs·methode entwickelt, (du kannst dich dort eintragen (wie, das siehst du an den beispielen, wenn du edit drückst) um abzustimmen ob 1+1 = 2 ist) und ich will das jetzt benutzen, um abzustimmen, ob wir alex das community·wiki abkaufen sollen (du erinnerst dich an die 1000 euro, die ich inzwischen hier rumliegen habe?) .

xtof : sigi, Mattis, amusant cette page qui diverge en MultilingualExperiment. Disons que je suis en panne sur l’allemand :) Pourriez-vous reformuler en français ou en anglais ? - 2005-06-17

sylvie: Mattis peut peut-être faire la traduction en Anglais , et nous à partir de l’anglais on traduit en français ici, et sigi peut aussi ouvrir une page wikivote en allemand pour y transférer sa question. on wiki vote ? ;) [gute idee, aber..]

sigi: it’s not that important . i asked myself, if we could need bayles wiki·vote programme to ask the community to buy alex’ community-wiki . i could spend 1000 euro for that . @sylvie @xtof : vous êtes encouragé à parler ici français . das ist gut für meine französisch·kenntnisse.

xtof: salut sigi. je me contente de traduire pour comprendre. ce n’est pas vraiment important. je me demandais juste si nous pouvions avoir besoin du programme de wiki·vote de bayle pour interroger la communauté sur l’achat du community-wiki d’alex. je pourrais dépenser 1000 euros pour cela. Hé quelle provocation : n’ayant pas 1000 euros je ne peux pas voter ! Mais bon si tu veux acheter un sondage1 sur craowiki, on peut le négocier contre 4 bières à Paris. sigi on peut faire ce deal si tu veux mais je suis convaincu que ça ne vaut rien on n’achète pas les wikistes. Et encore moins une CommunautéWiki ! Donc pour répondre à la question du dessus je vote non même si nous savons tous en France que VoterEstInfernal

sylvie: qu’achète t-on exactement ? le sous-dossier wikiCW ? pour le mettre ailleurs ? quelle est l’idée qui te pousse à faire cette proposition ? Si tu veux que l’on vote et notament oui…tu dois nous donner des arguments + convaincants que tes 1000 euros ;)

Please do not misunderstand sigi. I know him since I came down on planet wiki in late summer 03 and he somehow remains mandragora to me. They are there, his ideas. They fly around your head, but it’s so hard to catch them, to rather make them sit down on your hand for a minute - shy they are - before they sore up again.
In his ideas about money first there’s the taste of what we called the Pilot games back in the 80ies: Find friends, collect money, when you are in early you win a lot, when you are too late you loose all your money. But it’s not that. Siggis idea is like a pilot game but under Gnu/GPL, the license secretly written into it. And it somehow reverts polarity.
Humans have been going through several major intelligence patches

  • the faustkeil
  • the wheel
  • agriculture
  • written language
  • printng
  • the internet
  • understanding that a world can’t work when we’re not having a constant all over known amount of money on earth is next.

The amount of money on Terra is 1. One eTerra. It’s sheer computer money, yes. You exchange money fom the old Matrix into the real world (certainly after choosing the red pill) by giving free money. You get 1000 € from someone and you give these to somebody else you trust to give the money further to someone this person trusts and so on. Maybe you give 1000 + 35 €? In return you get a share of the virtual one eTerra booked on your account. The more participants there are the more fractalized the one global terra gets.
What is the algorythmn to make it fair, I wonder? The sum is one, the more that come in, the more fractalized the one eTarra gets. Persons who join in early have an advantage to the ones who came later. How to make it fair? The eTerra shall be good transparent [OpenMoney? open money].
Money is a sheer agreement. When people agree on a type of money they actually do create it. It’s Late. It’s time (to create open money).

sigi has collected the 1000 EUR he offers to someone he can be sure of they will be given further to some else … Alex in this case. Good choice, I think. That’s what he means with buying cw. Sigis words are harsh sometimes. Alex substracts the costs for the sever from the sum, I think.

  • (comment) yes, all his costs till now and furthermore no costs in the future . --sigi

I do not deliberately misplace contributions but I sometimes realize - after I had an idea and wrote - that I did so. To make you move it, so it stays inthe rc’s longer, maybe? Use it too and tell me when I exaggerate, please. Can’t help it.

sylvie: je ne comprends pas tout, est-ce que cela pourrait être traduit via un schéma ?

sigi : as mattis said: there are a good number of points of view (at least 3) and sub·points natürlich [natuerellment] . a net of nodes, a map of maps, a connection·machine .
first: people: i’m happy for that group here (just as the tree shows (and the others are invited)) :)
second: rules and the language: each one has its own rules and its own language (with different emotions) . sylvie & xtof don’t speak the same language nor do mattis & sigi . but we have to find common rules and a universal language (@sylvie: is that meant by “un schéma”?)

sylvie: I’m not sure that schéma is a universal language but it could help for a global vision of an organisation for example, and also to read in a different way informations about a subject. We need forms(languages) complementary to help for a mutual comprehension.

sigi : third: wiki·money: it’s the interface between wiki and real life . till now there is no interface .

sylvie: it sounds Interesting can you tell more about ? :)

sigi : ecclesiastes 10:19 “but money answereth all [things].” what does that tell us? money is a sort of language . it’s not the value things have, it’s a name (a reflection) of this value .
wiki·money is not a money made by humans, this money is invented by the computer itself ;) . it reflects the value of all we can buy as one e·terra or A (see mattis above) . therefore it’s a universal money . at the same time it’s our money, if we agree to this definition .
fractalisation has gone : A = 2 B = 4 C = 8 D = 16 E = 32 F = 64 G .. = ..131072 R = 262144 S .

example for exchanging money:

sigi : some points of view:
“craowiki”: yes, we can buy craowiki (and wikiwiki.de) too and make them like one wiki .
“alex”: alex ist ein sehr sympathischer mensch, but he is not the community . in the long run his concept of a wiki (only some friends) is not our concept, but it’s he who has the last word and not we . that’s top down and not bottom up . but if we want stigmercy, we have to go bottom up . so, for he will not give us this wiki as a present, we must buy it . alex can further be one of the administrators, but if we all pay the money for this wiki, he is only one of us (and furthermore can have a place for his friends here, no problem).
“wiki·vote”: it’s for the others, to invite them, so far, as there are no other rules . our group does not need it, we have a (sylvie)center for that :)
“lion”: excuse me of speaking deutsch, aber mir scheint, dass wir so nicht weiterkommen . there is a gap . auf der einen seite habe ich den eindruck, dass lion unsere gruppe nicht als mitspieler sieht, sondern eher als sein publikum, auf der anderen seite bin ich sicher, dass dieser eindruck falsch ist
hier wäre eine klärung für die ganze community von nutzen .
“bayle”: the best reputation system is our wiki·tree, but we can need your system as a performance/efficiency system . it’s very good for that .

nicolas: for those still interested in multilingual chat, there are the “Chevilles Syntaxiques” (= syntactic pegs) on Blue Moon. See the following page: http://www.bloumoune.org/cgi-bin/tesque.pl?action=lire&page=ChevillesSyntaxiques (currently in french, will be in english and other languages asap).

sylvie : CapitalTesque

nicolas: Sylvie, try this: http://www.bloumoune.org/cgi-bin/tesque.pl?action=lire&page=SovietRussiaWiki&auteur=Sylvie&parole=%5Cpetit%2Bgras+%7Bla+transformation+de+l%27argent+en+capital%7D+%5C%7C%5C%7C++%5Cinfime+%7B%3C%3C+L%27argent+en+tant+qu%27argent+et+l%27argent+en+tant+que+capital+ne+se+distinguent+de+prime+abord+que+par+leurs+diff%E9rentes+formes+de+circulation%2E+%3E%3E++vendre+pour+acheter+%3A+M%2DA%2DM+transformation+de+la+marchandise+en+argent+et+retransformation+de+l%27argent+en+marchandise+%3A+l%27argent+sert+d%27interm%E9diaire%2C+la+marchandisse+sert+de+valeur+d%27usage%3B+l%27argent+est+donc+d%E9finitivement+d%E9pens%E9%2E%2E%2E+la+m%EAme+pi%E8ce+de+monnaie+change+deux+fois+de+place%2E+Le+vendeur+la+re%E7oit+de+l%27acheteur+et+la+fait+passer+%E0+un+autre+vendeur%2E+acheter+pour+vendre+%3A+A%2DM%2DA+transformation+de+l%27argent+en+marchandise+et+retransformation+de+la+marchandise+en+argent%2E+Tout+argent+qui+dans+son+mouvement+d%E9crit+ce+dernier+cercle+se+transforme+en+capital%2C+devient+capital+et+est+d%E9j%E0+par+destination+capital%2E+Ce+mouvement+aboutit+%E0+l%27%E9change+d%27argent+contre+argent%2C+A%2DA+%3A+la+marchandise+sert+d%27interm%E9diaire%2C+l%27argent+que+donne+l%27acheteur+c%27est+pour+le+reprendre+comme+vendeur%2C+l%27argent+est+donc+simplement+avanc%E9%2E%2E%2E+la+m%EAme+marchandise+change+deux+fois+de+place%2E+L%27acheteur+la+re%E7oit+de+la+main+du+vendeur+et+la+transmet+%E0+un+autre+acheteur%2E+%5C%7C%5C%7Ctexte+original+%3A+%5Cpage+%7Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emarxists%2Eorg%2Ffrancais%2Fmarx%2Fworks%2F1867%2FCapital%2DI%2FkmcapI%2D4%2Ehtm%7D+voir+aussi+les+termes+de+la+licence+de+ce+texte+%3A+%5Cpage+%7Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emarxists%2Eorg%2Fadmin%2Flegal%2Fcc%2Fby%2Dsa%2Ehtm%7D++%7D

 (things that have been improved:  
 quotes "..." become << ... >>  (plus joli)
 the text goes between   \infime { ......... }  so that it is written in tiny tiny characters
 the title goes between   \petit+gras {  ..... }  so that it is small(=petit) and bold(=gras)
  (english speaking users could have typed \small+bold { ... } )
 the page http://www.foobar.com is written \page {http://www.foobar.com} so there's a link!
 ...and finally I put some \| here and there.   \| is a carriage return)

sylvie : merci Nicolas, http://wiki.crao.net/index.php/%3D%3D%3D%3E%20LesPagePotlatchSontG%E9n%E9ratives

 petit+gras { plongée en pleine mer }\|
 gloup gloup\|
 \infime { rechercher plancton \| éviter récifs}\|
 \petit+gras {pour trouver le lien\| qui amène à l'image de fond \|(de Jaone - libre de          
 droit) }\|
 \page {http://www.plouf.be/plouf/feplouf03.jpg} \|
 \petit+gras {il faut tâtonner dans le noir}

preliminary related discussions are on VirtualMoney and MoneyMoney



1. Pour le WikiVote, nous testons le CraoWiki:SondagePageAccueil? mais encore trop peu de répondants, inutile de payer pour voir :-) [comment voir les resultats?]

Define external redirect: SondagePageAccueil OpenMoney

EditNearLinks: CommunautéWiki