(summarized out:)

Having the soul of a banker {which I keep in a pickle jar :-)}, I believe that I can now calculate the Fx rate of conversion between Sam’s service offering and Lion’s. Even better…

  • Since I know what it cost in real $ca to buy the services Sam is offering, I can now set a ‘recognized and accepted’ value on all of these offerings. I do believe we are staring to make some (business) progress!

There, added some more, mirrored some of what Lion offers. May end up changing if prices are too high, or too low. But, it’ll be interesting to see how Hans or others calculate the value of the points. It’ll also be interesting to (eventually) think about how points might convert into different currencies, and how to go about calculating that, and tracking the value, etc.


Have you given any thought to the effects of ‘competition’ or ‘collaboration’ on Price? (A.K.A Supply & Demand effects)

  • My own belief is that (in the longer term) competitive offerings are inevitable. In fact, their likelihood is obviously related to the perceived potential (profit) value.
    • I am certainly not concerned about this in the short-term, since there is more than enough inertia keeping most folks from doing anything at all, but my interests in this stem from the Observations that…
      • You generally espouse “Open Business” models, which may well reduce the usual time period needed for potential competitors to become aware of the opportunity and decide to try to exploit the advantages inherent in a “second” entrants position (as opposed to the better understood FirstMovers? advantage).
    • I’m quite interested in at least discussing this a bit, in the early stages, if only to minimize the potential for subsequent surprises.

Interesting; …

PoliticsOfInformation?? InformationGame?? InformationGaming?? FirstMover??

What is the relationship between Open Business models, and first-mover / second-mover status?

Well, is an openly editable page, but so far has only been contributed to and edited by me. As hans noted in WhatCompaniesMustDo, there are many interpretations of cocneptualizations like this (LiteracyOfHumanNature). We see different people, with different motivations and WorldView bases defining the sme or similar things in different ways

However, I’ll talk about it from the perspective of what I wrote at

The way that I am applying what is at is that I am not focusing on profit and money alone. I am personally focused on making enough money to live and play comfortably, and not interested in “getting rich”, or hoarding money/wealth.

Instead, I am focusing on people and ethical pratices first. So, I am not even paying attention to the race to bottom for commoditized goods and services. I am not trying to compete on price alone. How am I doing this? How does this work?

  1. I “listen” to the markets for people who are looking for value beyond price, for people who need specialized knowledge, infrastructure, adn resources that I can give them.
  2. I “tune my transmitter to their receivers”, I make my self findable, I work towards making myself credible, useful.
  3. I listen to people, then offer useable unique solutions to problems that people actually care about solving, instead of mass produced solutions that people must force-fit into their processes.

This helps to connect me with markets that consist of people who are looking for more than just the lowest price.

Plus, I am constantly participating in SharingEconomy?, GiftEconomy and KnowledgeCommons? production. I push gifts forward, without expecting anything in return, though appreciating returns when I get them. Doing this helps me to connect with people who share interests, and helps me to co-create infrastructure and resources that I and others want or need. OpenKnowledge and KnowledgeCommons? participation are the key here. See:

There are very, very few people actively pursuing what I am describing as OpenBusiness right now. So, if some people do actually successfully emulate what I am applying, I’ll be pesonally quite happy about it. I’d absolutely love to see the entire global business world “rip me off”, and start applying what you see at

If enough people were able to successfully copy what I am doing, I would probably retire as an entrepreneur, go back to school and get a degree in somethign like computer science, music theory, or complex science/systems theory or something. Then maybe I’d go out and get a job in the exciting new OpenBusiness economy. Until then, I’m over here trying to “build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete”1.

But seriously, I guess the very short answer to HansWobbe’s questions above is that I am not competing in the commodity/price market, for the most part.

Wow, Sam; You should put that text into your name page, or something. I can’t think of something you’ve written that more adequately expresses what you’re all about.

As a side thing; I would recommend putting onto the CommunityLocalNames page, since it’s important to you and you reference it a lot.

There; I just added it – You can just type OpenBusinessModel now, and it’ll link up right.

As for our prices here, supply and demand, and so on– I think that we will get lower prices from each other here, than out in the world, because we know who each other are, or we know someone who knows who we are.

I have a hard time imagining people from outside “the community” (presently, a community of 2, …,) even listing on the exchange– not for lack of knowledge, but because in order to really buy something on the exchange, you have to offer something that people on the exchange might / would want.

Lion, ok I will put that in my profile here, good idea, thanks!

I came up witha little bit of a theory, while driving to work today, about a way to infuse value into, and jumpsart, InternetExchange.

What I thought about was that I, and we, as a community could go back and analyze contributions we’ve vlaued in the past, here in our community, and we could award IA currency out of our own “pockets” to these past achievements. This helps to establish value possibly as much as Hans suggested that giving quotes for services available might help people judge real-world vlaue of the IA currency.

So, I thought I might get the ball rolling:

(Please consider this by no means an exhaustive list of the “currency” I feel people desrve for their contributions)

I award AlexSchroeder: 60,000 points for creation of OddMuse, etc

LionKimbro: 20,000 points for various pages and contributions

RadomirDopieralski : 5000 points for the creation of

MattisManzel: 10,000 for tireless community building efforts over several years

ChristopheDucamp: 5000 points for the same, plus translation efforts

PatrickAnderson: 1000 points for contributions

BayleShanks: 5000 points for software and wiki contribs

KeithHopper: 1000 for various contribs

EmileKroeger: 5000 for cartoons, ideas, wiki cntributions

MarkDilley: 2000 for various contributions

HansWobbe: 5000 for many different Community wiki contributions

HelmutLeitner: 5000 for helping us keep it real :)

BrandonCsSanders: 5000 for ConsensusPolling

TedErnst: 5000 for ConsensusPolling

ThomasKalka: 1000 for past contributions

DanielMacKay: 1000 for our help on IRC setting up OddMuse

If I forgot anyone, please add your name above, and give yourslf 1000 :)

So, this puts me -131,000 in the hole. I will either work this off, or othes might awarda little back to me, if they happened to have liked anything I’ve done around here :)

Now, we have an economy…

Update revised/withdrawn per conversation with LionKimbro, found at InternetExchangeChat

An almost enthusiastic yes!, with a couple of concerns:

  • If we introduce new people to the system, won’t that put them “behind,” in a way? (Since they’ll be at zero?)
    • New people such as: the Great Turning people, Dana, Amy, (etc.,.) …
  • Instead of taking the debt yourself, SamRose, perhaps we should debit “The CommunityWiki,” or something? Or perhaps debit “The InternetExchange,” itself..?

(In the realm of personal debits, I’d believe I should credit Radomir for the drawings for TheStoryOfHope..!)

(Also: Is there a particular request for me, here?)

Well, I guess this is one proposed way to do it. I am trying to avoid the problems discussed here

…by trying to make the currency actually worth something, in this case worth the vlaue derived from past contributions to the community. The way I went about it means that I “underwrite” InternetExchange by going into debt, which forces me to contribute back actual value in the future, thus sustaining the value of the currency.

But, when you mention new people, you get me thinking, because we are all essentially new people to this, to start out with.

So, maybe we can revise my original idea a little bit.

I propose that maybe, when a new person enters the exchange, the rest of the community evaluates their “value equity”, assigning a “points” value to their existing bodies of work, and this is what they start out with. I propose that it is up to the entrant to post their own portfolio during the evaluation period, though during the evaluation, others may chime in and add/remind the community about anything left out. ConsensusPolling could be used to pass a final decision about the EntryValueEquity? of each new participant.

ConsensusPolling could also be used to create the set of criteria that are used to evaluate each new participant. We can decide together what is “valuable”, and how much it is worth, etc. This list can grow as new types of contributors enter the exchange. For instance, one person might be an artist, another a writer, another a programmer,etc. We can decide as a community how much value to place on a piece of writing that was released under CreativeCommons vs. one that was not for a writer, for instance, and then grant that person a starting amount based on their existing body of work (and the nature of what we as a community find valuable in it).

Lion, I am looking for someone who might be able to create a Python script that can export text from Dokuwiki into the OpenSource Scribus page layout program. Ideally, it would import pages under a certain namespace, for instance. what do you think you might charge in InternetExchange currency to do this, if you are interested 9or, how much you might charge to tutor me as to how to go about doing it myself, willing to pay more for that, of course :) )?

In light of InternetExchangeChat, myself and Lion will likely be removing the values above, and instead only issuing points to people who express interest in actually participating

I am starting to think about a new angle on InternetExchange, which incorporates BayleShanks ‘s CollaborativeTodo idea, and the comments LionKimbro left at the bottom of that page. The comment about creating “findable” ways of engaging “todo” items that you can work towards helping to complete.

This might be a way to “launch” and accelerate InternetExchange, and create equitable exchange, by bringing to the table both what you need done, and what you can do, as “objects” that many people can find and engage (perhaps they’ll find it semantically?)

There could be a systematic way to “open” your items up to be worked on, once you’ve worked on other’s items in the system.

Any thoughts on this?

PS. check out the referral link that popped up on this page:

I also realized that you could so very easily recreate a type system in either Drupal, or with something like ELGG (I have an instance of ELGG set up here:

Also, it’d be possible to do in a wiki with tagging, too, I think…

In Drupal, it’d be possible to create a system that:

  1. lets everyone list the things there are good at/enjoy doing
  2. lets people initiate actual projects, with roles, that include a simple project management
  3. lets the system “unlock” those projects for participation after you yourself participate in enough projects

of course, it is possible to do all of that manually right here on this page, or in this wiki, too :)

This looks pretty interesting. Something makes me think: We take the one global eTerra and devide it by 131000. … ;)

Today I stumbled across the Stop Foolish Rounding project, founded by Ward Cunningham. I think it is relevant to this InternetExchange and the CommunityWikiBank (as well as SocialSynergy:PeertoPeerCurrencyExchange? ).

My apologies. The business in my life has been insane. I am about to bust at the seams. I want to get to this, I need to get to this, I still count this as a high priority.

Not having read everything above yet, and attendant links, I can briefly say:

  • Thanks-basing the currency sounds good to me. We might want “big thanks, medium thanks, and little thanks,” or something, to classify the types of thanks, but I basically like the idea.

I (or Sam, or David, or whomever) need to do a reworking down the line here to isolate ThanksBasedCurrency. I’m also getting lost, trying to find the work Sam offered to me, to translate pages from a wiki to Scribus, or something like that in there. D’oh – the hardest part was remembering the phrase “Scribus.” Okay: Dokuwiki to Scribus. I will need to investigate the data paths available before I can say how easy it is.

I stilll have not read everything on this page. I feel very much that my present CarryingCapacity is exceeded. I will come back, but it will take some time.

SamRose: I agree with just about all of your reasoning I have read so far. I like the thanks-based currency. I understand “rival” vs. “unrival,” I do not yet understand how you are applying this distinction to the idea of the InternetExchange. I like the idea of pooling our skills, and just dipping from the pool; I worry about the person who gives and gives and gives, but never receives– the pool, I believe, needs some element of reciprocity. “Thanks” is beautiful reciprocity, if given, and honored. The rule about honoring a person’s CarryingCapacity is great / profound.

OK– I believe I’ve read everything here, and attached links.

FiveMinuteImprovement suggestions:

Hmm, thanks-based currency. Sounds good to me.

Lion, ok, rework in progress. Also, I had writtent ThanksBasedCurrency, but then later commented that I think that thanks is not a currency, that is is just thanks. So it’s more of a reputation system/trust metric/value metric than an actual money, I realized after thinking about it. It can help facilitate BarterExchanges?, and CommunityResourcePooling?.

When I get to my next destination in a about 2 hours, I’ll do the 5 min rework…

Hi all,

I haven’t been keeping up with this topic but are you are interested in random links having to do with labor offers and swaps? If so, then here are two that I saw:

Bayle, it is cool with me. I think it can help inform what we are doing to have existing examples as reference.


1. from “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete” - BuckminsterFuller

Define external redirect: StartupPoints FirstMover KnowledgeCommons SharingEconomy EntryValueEquity InformationGaming PeertoPeerCurrencyExchange CommunityResourcePooling BarterExchanges InformationGame PoliticsOfInformation FirstMovers

EditNearLinks: AboutUs BuckminsterFuller PatrickAnderson OpenSource ConsensusPolling OpenKnowledge BarCampBank OddMuse GiftEconomy