MattisManzel archive 2 (040421)

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I have to catch you on IRC so that I can show you how you can set it up in 2 seconds! ;)

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The consquence is the completely open global human being within a completely open global community. You have your blogs attached here. A blog is a limited wiki, right? Couldn't I have the same personal sphere here - to copy and devellop http://www.terrahome.net.tc or any other bullshit with full wiki features, unlimited? A personal OffTopic section, with full features, just in case something should get on-topic? For everyone. This blows it, I know, but it's comin' soon. So, just to get you prepared.
Did your answer above relate to this, I copied over from yout tidied up homepage? How many days did you say the deleted stuff remamins in the history before getting ireversably lost ?

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Things should remain in the history for 14 days.

I'm against providing off-topic blogging service to everybody, because I don't want to pay for it, and neither does the company hosting my wikis. You can always ask ThomasWaldmann for hosting services. I'd like to try this as a business idea, actually. ;) See http://www.emacswiki.org/internet/ -- but I didn't get an answer from Thomas. The point would be that his company provides hardware, bandwidth, and basic infrastructure, whereas I provide the wiki support.

A blog is not necessarily a wiki. My personal blog is a wiki, but that's only because I configured it like that. My blog is not really "attached" here; I include the RSS feed of my blog on my homepage. Everybody can do that. But the blog itself is not on community wiki.

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Fast we are this mooney sunday, eh? I hope you are sensing not offense in me archiving things. I have an emotional relation to every single line I droped in here and a such to many of your anwers, and knowing these things on an automatic execution list is like having been infected with a virus and now waiting for it to break out. I whish you'd do the same with the cut away grass of your freshly mowed FrontLawn. Just like rl: The cutaway grass is to be recycled for compost. I though do not know about the technical aspects that tis has (slowdown, overload ...)
I just would like to say also that there is no place as advanced and filled with a pleasant working atmsphere as here and that I apprechiate very much to listen to and be listened to here. Thank you all.
What do I need for this IRC stuff? Right, I'll just get me informed on myself first.

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Tak, I use the name sleipnir on IRC.

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Alle Seiten haben derzeit einen roten Balken "Diese Seite wurde von einer anderen Person 20 Sekunden vorher verändert Bitte überprüfen Sie, ob diese Änderungen überschrieben worden sind." Mach ich was falsch?

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[de]Roter Balken ist jetzt weg. Dufte.
[en]I will have little time 'till Wed 11th Feb, I'll be off then and back on Sat 14th. "Gut Holz!" everybody.

[de]Auf http://www.wikiservice.at/gruender/wiki.cgi?DasL%f6schenFremderSeiten unter Grosse Emotionen und Archiv stehen wahre Dinge. Frage: Gibt es hier oder auf Meatball (oder anderswo) bereits Seiten zur Frage Archivierung, auf denen ich eure Standpunkte dazu erkennen kann? Wo entwickeln wir unseren gemeinsamen Standpunkt zu dieser Frage?

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[en] Let us create a page, then: PerfectArchiveDiscussion. [fr] Créons une page ArchivageDeDiscussionParfait

[new] [de]Hi, ich komme vom InformatikPotsdamWiki, und diskutiere gern zu WikiSchool mit. Unser Wiki ist als privates Projekt aus dem einfachen Bedürfnis eines Erstsemestlers heraus entstanden, mit seinen Kollegen in Kontakt zu kommen und gemeinsam Übungsaufgaben zu lösen. Bis dahin war es so, dass quasi jeder Jahrgang "sein" Forum hatte, was aber für die anderen Semester reichlich uninteressant war, weil einerseits für ihre Themen kein Bereich vorgesehen war und andererseits das typische Login-einrichten-und-Nickname-aussuchen zum Mitschreiben genervt hat. Beim Wiki hat es mindestens ein Jahr gedauert, bis ein etwas größerer Kreis seinen Nutzen erkannt hat. Jetzt wird vor allem die Freiheit beim Neuannlegen neuer Bereiche geschätzt. Leute, die das Wiki zum ersten Mal sehen, finden es oft unübersichtlich und es irgendwie schwierig anderer Leute Seiten zu bearbeiten. Ich selbst finde das aber als eine Art "Einstiegstest" gar nicht so schlecht.
Im Gegensatz zu den auf WikiSchool geäußerten Hoffnungen ist es bis jetzt noch nicht dazu gekommen, dass im Wiki in Gemeinschaftsarbeit beispielsweise ein Vorlesungsskript entstanden ist. Das liegt wohl daran, dass es zu viele auch regelmäßige Besucher gibt, die nur das sie gerade Interessierende abschöpfen, aber selbst keine Beiträge liefern. Es fehlt aber auch an der technischen Unterstützung, beispielsweise das Einbinden von LaTeX-Code, was wir Techniker meist brauchen. Was ganz gut klappt sind die Informationsseiten zu den Veranstaltungen, wo oft ergänzende Materialien verlinkt sind, sowie die FAQ für Erstsemester und zu Formalitäten. --HermannSchwarting?

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Hermann, hello. Habe deinen Beitrag gerad entdeckt - ist irgendwie durch meine Aufmerksamkeit gerutscht. Danke für die Antwort, gerad keine Zeit aber später mehr.

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Mattis, do you know of a wiki where people talk in a lot of different languages, and don't mind people who can't write / read in a language, but try anyways?

I've been reading a lot of German lately, and have figured some things out.

Ich habe "und" und "oder." Ich kenne (know) "Magen" (stomach); Ich sehe (see) "ich," "du," und "mein." Ich habe ein Fragewort: "Warum?" Und viele (many) andere (other) Worte: "speichern" (to store/to save), "drucken," (print) "Spiel," (game) "Münzen" (coins), "Hunde" (dogs?), "Revier" (region?).

I was just wondering if you knew of a place on-line where I can just chat with people in mixed languages, and people encouraged that sort of thing, even if you don't know any grammar, or much vocabulary.

I'm sure I completely butcher German. I can't even do the phonetics right. But I'd just like to enjoy trying to talk with people. If you know of a place, please let me know..!

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Sorry Löwe, ich kenne einen solchen Ort (place) bisher (till now) auch nicht. Es interessiert mich aber (but) auch (too). Though, there is http://sprachen.so36.net/ - the "language evening Leipzig". They gather monthly I guess and have this multilingual soireé. It might become what you are looking for.

[new] hi lion, see DeutschEnglish. --sigi 040313 2:50

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Sunir plans to apply for the ars electronica with meatball. Deadline is 26 of march. What about applying with an alliance of - say - Gründerwiki, Community and Meatball? MeatBall:ArsElectronicaContest

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I realized that only the German version of RecentChanges has a link on RecentNearChanges?. Why do they miss in the English and French Recent changes? I'd like them to be easy accessible as they are great, MeatBall is. Another reason to make things multilingual with good filters (RecentChanges included)

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RecentNearChanges? is in the header and footer of every page; putting it in RecentChanges in addition to that is a bug. I will remove it. :)

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"Letzte Änderungen in der Umbebung", hat ich übersehen. Letzte Änderungen nahebei?

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Verzeihung - den habe ich auch gleich mit angelegt, als Gegenstück zu RecentNearChanges?. :) Du hast es also nicht wochenlang übersehen; es ist tatsächlich neu.

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Good, I had been just been wondering on how blind I am already. A page for RecentTechNews? like this little fine change would be gentle and useful for new readers (and for me).

This though might lead into popularity. I respect your distance to popularity, and I keep in mind the community here. But:

(Prince)
pop life - ev'ybody needs a thrill
pop life - we all got a space to fill,
pop life - ev'ybody can't be on top,
life it ain't real funky
it ain't got that pop (dig it!)

[new] Hi Mattis! Thank you again for joining our [OpenPeople? http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?OpenPeople] network and I look forward to working together. I'm experimenting with a page to monitor our pages. It's at http://www.ms.lt/zz/test/testrawfeed.html and hopefully it will pick up changes in your RecentChanges page here. Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.ms.lt

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Andrius hi! So do I. About the monitoring: I don't quiete understand this yet but maybe LionKimbro is interested in it. It's a step towards OneBigSoup is it?
Where is the exact place for reading open people? The link I inserted above is about the licence. But where is the discussion going on?

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Nevermind when I report on my experiences in wiki-rl here. http://cafoscari.wiki.taoriver.net (it's just few days old). We are doing pretty some propaganda for it and surely quite some people read it already. The threshold for writing on it though seem high.
I realize that it was thought a little narrow when asking Lion for CaFoscari?. There are two more universities in Venice, one for architecture (the biggest) and one for fine Arts (I started WikiLouvre? already to put their - or others - pictures, drawings paintins on it, but my scanner doesn't work these days). I'd like to extend WiCaFo? on these universities. I was asking on IRC about making groups similar to these here on OddMuse, groups which have their own Recent Changes below (seems like that doen't exist in moinmoin). The fact of goups being pretty closed - I didn't like that too much here in the beginning when the MultilingualExperiment Group was created - could in the case of CaFoscari? (VeneziaUniWiki? would have been a better name, anyhow) be an advantage. Inneruniversal affairs could go on within the groups, interuniversal stuff - which is a lot, events the students are interested in, discussions on the universities politics, strikes - could be dealt with on the common surface reflected by the central recent changes. A general idea that comes to me: Wouldn't it be a faster and more lively way to create wiki for big units first and split this up into new wikis later when it's getting intransparent? With a narrow forehand specification after a while you (might) have some people interacting. With a wide forehand specification after a while you (might already) have chaos in the recent changes. But far more people would know wiki. More people would have experienced it. They will say "Hey, when this was smaller here it worked better, we remember that. Now there is chaos. Couldn't we have our own wiki and import all the stuff we wrote before?". And then you'll have to split.
I'm sure there are thoughts relating here or on meatball. Could someone point me there?

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The technology to transfer pages is in the works, at the InterWiki wiki. However, we're (well, I am, at least) pushing the pause button on it, because the OneBigSoup seems to be a higher priority.

BigBucketsFirst is the name of the idea for bundling everything together first, seperating it out later

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Please give me a yell when the cafoscari experiment is back on the air - Grazie infinite :-) [[1]]

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I will but now (see automatic timestamp :-)) it is still down and there are no news from Lion either for two days. His tel at home is always occupied, the other line has an automatic machine, saying it doesn't take calls. Patienza. All *.taoriver.net wikis are down.

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EditableTitles. What is the most unwikish thing about wiki? The Camelcase titles are. They are unflexible and necessary as bones are. Camelbones they are. Appoaching the problem from my standart enthusiastic mulilangues point of view only I thought: Could we have them editable? Could we have them multilingual? I did not approach the thing from the interwiki point of view, nor from the point of keeping a systems simplicity. I know these are important points of view. Theoretically and without any view on the problems this might cause, an idea of mine so to say:
The camelcase title remains unchanged in its functionallity. It remains in the recent changes but not as a link anymore, but it shows up as a popup when hovering over the editable title of a page. This title links to the page. The editable title is part of the text of the page. It is written on the first line of the page or in a special field of the edit window.
When implementing we could automatically copy all Camelcase titles of pages to their first lines. We'd have the recent changes like before but start editing titles. We could also add translations of the titles and the recent changes would show these according to the language filter settings below on the page. The Recent Changes would start looking like a good book's index instead of like a camels graveyard and true fairness for languages would be. Pages are multilingual, but without disadvantages, as you make you choice in the language filters. If you activate only one language the indicator [xx) and the background color are hidden - they are alike the monolinual pages are right now. Things are finally sorted by content and not by content in a regional code only.
Just an idea. What concequesces are there looking on it from interwiki and system simlicity points of view. And thanks for listening to half boiled potatoes.

Links everywhere show the editable title (and the camelcase title as a popup). To make a link you write the camelcase title, save, and you see the editable title.

[new] FooBar? = anything. http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/foo.html. It's absolutely blasphemic to explain it, me know, but I didn't understand it in the beginning 'til i receintly watched a pretty expensive movie in the original language. (Young) Germans and French mostly will not know it. I therefore propose making the page and explain it. It is ok to use a code, it is fun, but let's be open to others and explain our code.

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Hey Mattis. One of the things I didn't expect would continue to come up so often during the course of my last few years of study is the issue of identity, i.e., how things are identified, what it means to have identity, technological approaches to creating and maintaining identity, etc. WikiWords seem to me to be focused on identity, about creating a place to discuss a subject, what something is about.

In this regard (and I may be completely wrong, I'm just "shooting the breeze" as they say in English), the theoretically simple idea of CamelCase titles, or what a wiki page is about, is in reality not simple at all. In library science a solution to this problem is called FacetedClassification, where rather than creating fixed categories for all things, the subject of a single thing (like a book) is created by assigning a composite of subjects, so a book might be about fishing, but also about politics, the environment, and maybe about marriage (who knows?).

So a solution for wikis might be to allow a wiki page title to be assigned multiple WikiWords as a set of subjects. Like in a library, you can find any book that claims to be about a subject. So in searching for a book or a wiki page about marriage you might find one whose title is ostensibly about fishing.

Anyway, just some ideas... (BTW, you might also check out FIGMO, GAF & FUBAR for more on the origins of foobar.)

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Hoih, Murray. Thanks for pointing me. I'm trying to understand, it's interesting. Sunir said on IRC that my idea above is old, which I believe, having been with it for half a year only now and not knowing vast parts of MeatBall. Where has it been discussed before? My intention behind it is full fairness for all languages everywhere, the Recent Changes included, and a reader-friendly view of our index, the recent changes. This is our mouth, the place where our word sound out from. Recent Changes has a predefined chronological order. We are used to words coming out of mouthes in a chronological order. Every other place on wiki is DocumentMode based.

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Even if old it's not unimportant. I've been looking at organizing content according to a graph structure, where the distance between nodes in the graph can be used as a measure of semantic closeness. It's a bit more complicated than that, but you can see some of this with this image of an upper-ontology, which might give you the basic idea. Each node in the graph represents a unique Topic (in a Topic Map) and can contain links to one or more URLs/web pages. You can also infer things like "a person is a kind of animal is a kind of living thing". I think a technology like XML Topic Maps will likely provide a very good organizational/navigational approach to InterWiki. Topic Maps are an ISO standard designed to solve this kind of problem. A friend of mine, Alexander Johannesen, has just started a wiki+topic maps project. There's a wiki providing more information about Topic Maps at http://easytopicmaps.com but it's currently down. I realize this is pretty technical, but I think it points the way towards managing multiple subjects across one or more wikis.

See MeatBall:CategoryInformationVisualization, MeatBall:CategoryGraphTheory, and in particular the MeatBall:TouchGraphWikiBrowser (a MeatBall:LinkGraphView)

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We started on an honour tree on http://www.wikiwiki.de/newwiki/pmwiki.php/Wiki/BesterWikiKumpel (best wiki pal). I honoured Lion, proposed Alex, Sunir, Christophe, Helmut and Luigi. Anyone with it?

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I wonder what this is and why it says it needs no sever. http://www.people.virginia.edu/~yc2w/MyWiki/

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Ah. This is a one-person wiki. Only one person ever uses it. It stays locally, on your own computer. You never share it with anybody.

Thus, it needs no server.

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ThomasKalka pointed me to http://www.vivarto.com. They have poll tool use, interesting.

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It’s a process

My old buddy Stefan, he’s my dentist now. We shot pigeons with his air rifle and blew explosives in the garden that scared the whole quarter back in the seventies as teenagers. We do not meet very often now, mostly my teeth need treatment. So I told him about wiki, he told me about a meeting he’s going to, hypnosis and trace in dentistry, not so much about the pain but for calming down people with fears, psychotherapists are involved, what-so-ever. They could prepare such a meeting and stay in touch afterwards on a wiki, I thought, patients might report there, common analysis, nothing like it, DentistWiki?, no doubt. And a little later, ChirurgsWiki?, NursesWiki?, BakersWiki? and so on. Mercedes-BenzWiki?, BoeingWiki?, companies, workers, products. Each wiki building its own hierarchy, free. No, it is not WikiSchool alone. It is great, but there is so much more. And thanks for the fun of taking part in this process. In Kenya they say so, that’s what I’ve heard, ‘ never been there: “It’s a process”. What ever happens. - “It’s a process.” It’s African and wiki.

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[en] Can the achievement of interoperability of a number of non-techie processes be supported, using Wikis and/or Blogs?
My question is prompted by this French analysis of the blog and wiki as genres of writing (PDF - download here), as it has been defined by this Blogalization webmaster post. The document title is Écritures hypertextuelles; Désir de s'exposer, désir d'écrire.
My French does not help my clear understanding of the analysis' conclusion. Can it show a direction toward using Wiki to support non-techie process interoperability? Or does it confirm that it is just wishful thinking, because:

[fr]« L'idée de blogs collectifs, de logiciel social ou de wikis est de prime abord très intéressante, mais elle n'est pas sans me rappeler une expérience que j'ai souvent vécue. Il nous arrivait, lorsque nous étions plusieurs artistes réunis, de nous amuser à faire un tableau collectif. Nous pouvions tous peindre en même temps sur un grand tableau, ou en réaliser un plus petit et le faire circuler à la chaîne. Chacun continuait ce que l'artiste précédent avait peint. C'était amusant, mais cela se terminait généralement de la même façon, lorsqu'un “petit drôle” saisissait un gros pinceau trempé dans la peinture noire et barbouillait sans aucun respect toute la toile, et sonnait ainsi la fin de la "cocréation".»

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Wiki: Wir können auch anders. ' Irgendwelche Probleme damit?

Define external redirect: VeneziaUniWiki WiCaFo ChirurgsWiki RecentTechNews CaFoscari BenzWiki RecentNearChanges OpenPeople WikiLouvre NursesWiki HermannSchwarting FooBar BakersWiki BoeingWiki DentistWiki

EditNearLinks: FrontLawn LaTeX MeatBall ThomasWaldmann CamelCase DocumentMode

Languages: