Updated Social Synergy bliki with HyperLogic, which also links back to several concepts here.

I’ve been struggling with the SocialSynergy:HyperLogic page; I’m having difficulty recreating the situation it’s commenting on, and then putting on the “patch” thoughts, and so on. ;)

Here’s what I intuit:

  • MarshallMcLuhan, tribes, and so on. Makes sense to me.
  • You’re talking about getting conscious of the social level stuff happening.
  • White hat worms are okay: It’s okay to game the system, if you provide insight and defence as part of it.
  • Something about AIs.

Tangential thought it activates for me:

  • moderating the power law – Will the power law still work the same, when we can effectively abstract out ideas from text, and then automatically contextualize?
  • AssistedTextInference – way out there; I think I thought about this, because you were just talking about using AI to analyze writing in the public sphere

Lion, you are right. First of all, the bliki post needs all of the links that the original blog post has (which I have to get around to doing).

Second, I need to create a space under each post that I import from my blogs like this where I boil down everything to the key concepts as you have done above (or a speperate page per conept where I do the same). And, also I’ll keep the “notes” and “Discussion” spaces on the page, I think. Also, I think I need to explain why this is HyperLogic. Maybe get Marc Fawzi to add why he called it this. Lion, do you mind if I copy your comment to that page.

QED Wiki by IBM

Screencast of QED Wiki


I am parking this here, and will flip it into a page eventually:

“The Anticipatory Leader: Buckminster Fuller’s Principles for Making the World Work,” Medard Gabel and Jim Walker, The Futurist, September-October 2006, pages 39-44 (World Future Society,

10 Principles for Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Leadership:

1. Think comprehensively 2. Anticipate the future 3. Respect gestation rates 4. Envision the best possible future 5. Be a “trim tab”--an individual who can initiate big changes 6. Take individual initiative 7. Ask the obvious and naïve questions 8. Do more with less 9. Seek to reform the environment, not people 10. Solve problems through action


Audience 2.0

I’ve got an article going into a new webmagazine called Audience2.0. I composed the article in their wiki, and they’re going to move it to the Joomla site on Sep 9:

Also, they are publishing an interview I did w/ Howard Rheingold. It’s on the same page at the bottom.

Would love feedback on either, if you care to give any…

Yay! The EcosystemOfNetworks!

Other thoughts:

I believe that when people start to understand the nature of connections, and their current roles in these networks, they will start design more of their activities than just socialization and entertainment around these systems. They’ll also begin to build economies around them as well.

At the EvolutionarySalon, a few others have said things hinting to this effect as well.

TomAtlee? at the Salon asked, “What would it even look like, to see system becoming consciously aware of themselves?”

"Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex" begins with the phrase, “It is a time when, even if nets were to guide all consciousness that had been converted to photons and electrons toward coalescing, standalone individuals have not yet been converted into data to the extent that they can form unique components of a larger complex.”

In DanilaMedvedev’s Transvision 2006 presentation, he advocates for structuring our life’s systems like a computer.

The danger here is reliving the errors of the Modernism of the early 1900’s: "Houses are Machines for Living in."

This is a place where I feel JaronLanier’s criticism is quite right: Our vision of the future is not sensuous enough, not cultured enough; It’s too abstract.

But I do believe establishing, if not a LiteracyOfHumanNature (which still confuses me as an effort; I want to talk over it with you some more,) at the very least, a Literacy of Social Networks and Social Arrangement.

I very strongly believe that at some point within the next 10 years, discourse (people talking with one another) will be dramatically changed, by the introduction of handheld digital projectors. When that happens, I believe the VisualLanguage will take a major and notable leap in the public space.

Then, the diagrams of social networks will roll out, and much of this transformation will take place.

Lion, thanks for the feedback!

We are working on something close to a Literacy of Social Arrangement at Cooperation Commons, and also at the P2P foundation.

About a year ago, I got into a discussion with a guy named Tim Keller (also carried on here). I am still trying to track him down, aas his site is no longer online. Anyway, we disussed experimenting with social networks, and creating something like a Literacy of Social Networks. Tim’s main interest was what he called “Social Network Security”. Tim wrote:

“Large-scale social systems like political parties, corporations, intelligence agencies, NGOs, economic markets, all still obey the fundamental laws of networks, whether or not they’re technologically mediated. These laws can be used as leverage to manipulate with good or ill intent to change the topology & therefore the behavior of the system, to make it more or less efficient, fault-tolerant, innovative, susceptible to penetration or subversion.”

He also wrote:

“My basic concept is, since social networks are algorithmic, they can be manipulated algorithmically. You can map them (we’ve seen a lot of that), attack their structural integrity, strengthen them, weaken them, make them more or less efficient, all through applying the right coordinated effort across the network as a whole or at specific points as dictated by the requirements of the effect/transform/program you wish to run. If it’s a network, it’ll behave like any other network.

We’ve seen the precursors of this with flash mobs & similar projects. Clay’s powerlaw essay sketched out some territory for us. We’ve seen the concepts used in intelligence, when the Gray Fox unit tracked down Saddam in Iraq. But really, we’ve only just begun to realize the potential of seeing society as a network with predictable properties, not an unpredictable, stochastic system.”

I don’t know if I totally agree with him abou the behavior of Social Networks beign exactly the same as other networks. But, I totally agree with him, and you, Lion, that we can use a Literacy of Social Networks.

Tim has collected a huge amount of knowledge about networks and social networks here.

I’ll jump into the LiteracyOfHumanNature page today to continue our discussion there.

Also, I think that you are right about people’s concepts of the future. I know that you are interested in futures studies. Richard Slaughter has been working for a few decades to try and create what he calls “Social Foresight”. You can find pretty much all of his work here. SocialForesight? means that society at it’s most basic level has Foresight and Futures Studies knowledge embedded into it. That is a big vision by Richard Slaughter. It might be possible someday, if forsight and futures studies starts to be taught at very early ages to people.

Still, I am starting to wonder if what might happen is that a small population of highly connected people who already have been establishing literacies of foresight, human nature, social networks, participatory media, etc might be creating a literate-networked society among the greater society right now? And, if so, I wonder if they will reach a critical mass that results in tipping points of change in greater society over the comong years?

It’s amazing that you mentioned handheld digital projectors. I was talking to my father in law a few days, and I was thinking that I wish that I had a digital projector so that I could show him what I am talking about. I totally agree with you that these will be a big part of acceleration of knowledge. I found some people who are trying to put them in cell phones:

Also, thanks for the reference to Le Corbusier, Lion. It’s amazing to look back on the 20th century design ideas. I suppose it’ll be interesting look back on design ideas from right around now, too. One fo the things I learn by looking back is that you can see how people force-fit their intuition into the dominant paradigms of the day.

I wrote a large portion of the wiki section of The Participatory Media Literacy Course for Stanford University. This wiki is now public. I tried to link back to CommunityWiki and MeatBall for many of the key concepts in what I wrote. The Wiki is here:

It actually covers a wide range of participatory media concepts.

Hi Sam. I just ran across this page & your comment while googling myself. Mission accomplished! I had to take some time off to handle personal matters, but I’m back online & I should have a new instance of my website up in the not too distant future. I’m starting to work on putting my ideas into action, creating an SNA software collection & document library for starters. In the meantime I really like the looks of what you’ve got here, I’ll probably end up piggybacking a few things from here for the time being.

TimKeller 2006-10-01 21:22 UTC

Tim, Cool! Really glad you found us, and welcome! We have some discussion going on here on my user page, plus some documentation/discussion at EcosystemOfNetworks. But, we coudl definitely use a page on SocialNetworkSecurity, or whatever you’d like to call it.


I would LOVE feedback or contribution on this (work in progress, and crying out for your insights): SocialSynergy:PeerInvest?

I pledge my $400 from the CommunityWikiBank. :)

Sorry, no insights here, only cold hard cash.

Hi Sam. Happy to see you in the BarCampBank project ! Unfortunately, in France PeerInvest? will be difficult to implement due to legislative restrictions according to this comment from Benoît Granger. FYI, we just improvised yesterday a flash-meeting in a Paris Wistro to have talk with ChrisMessina? and TaraHunt?, our international BarCamp rep. We explained to them that the term venture in french is translated in french by capital-risque which don’t make sense according to any WikiVenture? vision ! I’d be happy to give some help to translate your WikiVenture? project in French ;-) My dictionnary is still very poor[1] and for the moment I cannot imagine WikiAventure. My position for the moment ? Perhaps keep your WikiVenture? For Profit vision in a french ContextSwizzling. Hé, communitywikibank amateurs, “the world need banking, but no bankers”… please join our BarCampBank and help us to remix/refactor the bank !


@ChristopheDucamp…I am definitely on board for the BarCampBank project! As far as SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? goes, I am still weighing the pros and cons of making the project for-profit vs. non-profit. I am leaning towards for-profit, but in a cooperative organization way that keeps as many of the processes as possible open, and transparent. I have a feeling that once more people get involved with SocialSynergy:PeerInvest?, and give their input, that the over all strucuture and idea may evolve in some interesting directions.

I came up with idea of a “WikiVenture?” as a way to utilize wiki as a launching platform for collaborative and open business ventures. To co-create the plans, organization, business models, etc. And, to make it easy to connect to collected knowledge about collaboration, cooperation and OrganizedCulture in existing wiki communities.

However, to tanslate to french, I think that any name that describes p2p and collaborative co-creation of entreprenurial efforts. These can be in conjunction with AlternativeCurrencies, or new banking institutions like CommunityWikibank?, or BarCampBank, or even some thing like a TimeBank?.

The niche that a WikiVenture?, or SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? hopes to fill is in the area of helping people to create a felxible, workable system of “micro investment”. But, instead of creating a “get rich quick scheme” environment, I hope to create a system that allows people to:

  • co-create and hopefully even test their core ideas/business models/rules of organization/etc,
  • when possible or applicable, attract a community of both investors, and/or co-innovators

As SunirShah is exploring with StartUpInaBox?, it is possible to do much of this work without collecting or spending a lot of money.

People can first work on their ideas, attract an enthusiastic community, co-create their business models and agreements, market research, projections, etc in open wiki environments for little to no cost, then co-fund the idea and launch it.

Build first—>Then Invest (if investment is even needed! :)

As such, we would possibly structure the PeerInvest? system to likely not allow people just to list an investment opportunity, but would only allow project that open up the processes in the way that I describe above. Although this is open for debate, too, of course.

I wish that I was familiar enough with French to suggest a possible better name or set of words to translate. I am totally open to any way that you see fit to translate the idea, of course (such as your suggestion of ContextSwizzling).

Also, I want to say that I think that OddWiki hive structure seems to me to be a very strong candidate for a platform for PeerInvest?.

@Sam : a) WikiVenture? title will not be translated in french. We could keep it and translate the content on CraoWiki or anywhere. b) Agree on the fact the OddWiki hive structure is a strong candidate for a platform. On a french point of view, I’d really be interested to have from you or anybody a first estimate to localize a dedicated OddWiki hosting with some designer skills and a WikiOhana structure. MathieuCoste of SiliconValois? seems interested to find out the human resources and find out a business-community-model. I’m more and more convinced that each project-leader should have his own dedicated wiki connected in the WikiNet. This BarCampBank project could be a good candidate to test a WikiNet with a lot of real projects as your very interesting PeerInvest? for profit ! Others platforms could also be thought and offered. LaurentLunati has helped us to draft a first tentative on fractalwiki. The main point now is to think about and implement simple and concrete rules for a “project-selector” governed by wiki-community. Maybe ChrisMessina? could help to integrate a very simple hReview-MicroFormats in wikis. I’d love to drive this discussion about RatingSystems in wiki anywhere.

Understood about French translation. If there is anything I can do to assist with french translation, please let me know (keeping in mind that I don’t speak French :) )

I think that It would be awesome to create BCB using OddWiki, with WikiOhana structure. There is information at that gives a general view of how to set up an OddWiki hive/farm/net whatever youwnt to call it.

I think that BarCampBank can possibly help SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? come into existence, so, I’ll definitely work closely there. Although, I think that BarCampBank and SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? will eventually become seperate entities. Because, from what I can tell, BarCampBank would be loosely modelled after CommunityWikibank?, which is structured to give peer credit (lending), while SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? is intended to facilitate peer investing. So, I imagine two separate but related and (hopefully) community connected systems that allow groups to either seek peer funding or peer investment in open ways.

I do think that BarCampBank projects could use the same general ideas that I put into SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? for people who would request credit from the BarCampBank community, though. They could still use wiki in a very similar way to publicly co-create their ideas and organization structure, etc. So, I am definitely interested in helping that happen for both BarCampBank, and SocialSynergy:PeerInvest?.

I have no experience installing or setting up OddMuse or OddWiki, although I would be willing to lend a hand with whatever I can help out with in that regard. Also, we may want to think about the design, and possible modifications or modules for OddWiki for the use as BarCampBank platform. At least, we might want to sketch out how we envision that it would work and get some feedback. Probably best if we do that at When I get a chance today, I’ll copy relevant parts of this message over there.

Can you talk more about this “project selector driven by wiki community”? For instance, in the context of BarCampBank, you see this as a rating system where the community might be able to rate projects, or individuals, or ideas, or…? Please expand :) We can move this conversation anywhere that you think could be effective, of course. Once I have a better idea of what you’ve got in mind, I think I can give some useful input.

Also, feel free of course to translate SocialSynergy:PeerInvest? to CraoWiki, or any other Wiki you’d like.

Hi Sam. It’s late and a bit tired to give you a good answer. Currently working in a bank, let’s say it’s quite difficult for my GeekHealth to work at night on the bcb project. Anyway, I’d be very happy to follow-up tomorrow because first feelings are quite good in my company. I try to answer point by point :

  • Forget any discussion about WikiVenture? translation, we could keep it for the moment on CraoWiki:WikiVenture? (people will catch the idea and will understand)
  • Really enthusiast to imagine several local forks for bcb :
    • As far as I’m concerned, the barcamp community has no experience in wikis but it’s a real community-wikimeetup in real life.
    • Convinced that WikiOhana could really help to drive projects and project-manager on their own work-space-wikis ;-)
    • imagine working on OddWiki which is a real wiki, multilingual. Even if we have to find out experimented guys and money from a WikiVenture? to set up a dedicated platform not to charge Alex on the canonical MotherWiki
  • Happy to see now the difference between CommunityWikiBank (lending) and WikiVenture? (profit, equities, vc). Maybe we should talk and invite HansWobbe in the bcb.

My main problem Sam is that I’m not a programmer, just a connector. I’d be very happy to see any skills in reputations systems able to implement that in wikis. I’m not able to have any opinion on reputation platform. How about working with this KarmaInitiative? groupe which looks very exciting [2] and this identity barcamp ? Financial expertise is needed to. Money coming from the sponsors and institutions will help to accelerate our ThinkTalkAct.

My opinion now is that this barcamp is really the opportunity and could actually provide us a good human platform for our tests on several topics :

Briefly a big incubator for all kind of projects based on barcamps. Think the major difficulties remain to convince, to be serious in order to be able to raise money on our local countries. I’ll skype you wednesday night if you’re available. Feel a bit sleepy now zzzzz. GeekHealth → dodo to dream of a ProjectSpace based on the WikiNet ! Ready to help as far as I can. Good night Sam. Cheers.

xtof-I like the general direction and ideas that you have here. I am pretty much totally inline with you on: using OddWiki if possible (including creating our own project server, etc.), KarmaIntitiative?, MicroFormats, BarCamStanfordIdentity?, all of it. I am not a programmer either, but I understand enough to lend a hand, and I also can take on “developing” and feeding back, as I have helped develop open source and commercial software and web based platforms in the past. So, I can possibly help with incorporating microformats and reputation metrics.

I think that what you have above is actually a good core start for the “roadmap” that you suggested earlier. We should post that into the BarCampBank wiki pages. what do you think?

Bonsoir Sam. Thanks for your words. About using OddWiki, it could be a topic to discuss in Zurich with Alex. I’d be interested to find out money to host a french MotherWiki. I’ve very strong difficulties to update my bliki when I go too fast with the SurgeProtector ;-) I have a lot of work and don’t want to be implied in any technical decisions. How about getting in touch directly with Ori and AlexSolleiro?. I could help to organize a future VideoBridge if you want. Very enjoyed to imagine incorporating microformats and reputation systems in the bigger WikiNet ! Good idea to update BarCampBank with a roadmap, BeBold Sam and go. I’ve just tried this morning to summarize our BarCampBank’s MissionStatement but I’m not sure.

My position this week could be to step off I’ll get some french feedback next wednesday during our wiki-school monthtly session. OddWiki could be very cool to integrate in a WikiOhana 101. Really think each member of the BCB should be able to navigate in the WikiNet and to have some skills like :

  • understanding the overall interwiki-structures
  • ability to update a personal wiki (OddWiki)
  • ability to detach any branch in WikiFractality (ProWiki)

My planning this week would be perhaps to move towards PinkoMarketing?. Cheers.

Google Sketchup

Anyone else had a chance to play around with this? I am also creating a mockup of a rooftop greenhouse that will go on the back of my barn:

I measures in feet or metric measurements, so you an actually use it to sketch designs for structures.

I hereby enclose all my contributions to CommunityWiki (in form of text, images, code or any other media) into the FreakOutDomain?, where applicable. You must pay me te amount of 1,000,000 to the tenth power in CocaCola “Summer of Fun 1996” bottle cap points to re-use, or even mention, anything I write here, or anywhere. Good luck finding these bottle caps, as I now possess almost all of them in the known universe. You may purchase these bottle cap points from me in exchange for orginal “OK soda” market research data:


Hello Sam,

Mark Dilley at told me about you, and I have read some of your interesting posts. I am hoping that as your time allows you might be able to participate in the brainstorming at the following Wiki page. Also if you know others that you think might add value feel free to invite them. Martin Pfahler.

A fellow contributor to the CooperationCommons project wrote this interesting article about StigmergicCollaboration.

Welcome. Thank you for posting interesting things here and at the Visual wiki (Visual:VisualWiki). And thank you for encouraging people to build the 2-way web in general.

(keeping first welcoming here)

Value Networks

(Keeping this here for quick reference as it is still relevant ot what i am currently working)

Hey, Sam, I think I’m starting to see the picture of what you are describing, with your “value networks” idea. And I’m looking at the maze of projects you are working on, and starting to see how they piece together. “PayExpected” seems to fit in the puzzle, does it not? I believe you already said that, but it is all starting to make sense to me.

And I think I’m going to be a little more diligent about tracking the blog posts, hacks, and other things people do for LocalNames.

Just wanted to let you know.

Re: SocialSynergy:PeerInvest – Do you know about IBESI, that BrandonCsSanders is working on with an enormous network? If you want to get in touch with them, get in touch with Brandon, or ask me to introduce you to Brandon. I’m not sure if work is proceeding there, but, at the very least, it is a network of people sharing the same intention.

Lion: Yes! I thought that the notion of PayExpected was like a natural emergence from people who put a lot of work into valuable software tools.

Actually, I know that for most of the creative ventures that I have pursued in the past (like creating a magazine, recoring music, etc, that although I did not set out to make money in making these things, I still had some degree of the PayExpected sentiment.

But, the thing that I am thinking is that a guy like SamRose, or LionKimbro are much better at creating and brainstorming different things, than being a one-mman collection agency. So, what I want to do is think about how other people are going to become very willing to pay for what is created.

I really think that the old businessmodels can’t work too well with OpenContent, except for the exchanging value part, and the building relationships parts. Because, of course in the classic business/commerce models, people built up some sort of relationships with the other people or companies they did business with. Even if the relationships were totally superficial, like my relaitonship with my favorite grocery store, it’s still there in my head.

And, people also perceive some kind of exchange of value. So, this has typically been for example: my money that I earned with my work in exchange for the product of your labor. Except, if the product of your labor is OpenSource software, then I can conceivably just go download the product of your labor and skip the “my money in exchange for…” part.

But, what if myself and 80 other people were in a conversation with you about a specialized version of the product of your labor that does something really ground breaking, and we all pitch in and create a sort of “bond” that pays you, and maybe even a couple of partners, to create that software. And then, what if we all tithe some money back to your from our revenue in exchange for close support from you. Also, what if we created an equity pool or money pooling fund or cooperative arrangement, along with shared KnowledgeCommons? of best practices, and mapping not just money exchanges, but also value exchanges, and seek to increase and multiply value across the network of people involved.

We already see versions of both of these ideas here and there with larger companies like RedHat (actually, RedHat tried to track down every OpenSource developer listed in their distro and set aside a chunk of their IPO to be split up among them. It turned out that the SEC told them they couldn’t do this with stock from a publicly traded company. I believe they just gave them money instead).

So, with the LocalNames project, you could definitely keep track of everyone using the technology. You could also create something like a LocalNames blog, or Planet LocalNames that both publicizes and tracks the universe of LocalNames at the same time.

With SocialSynergy:OpenvalueNetwork?, we can also look at intangible value (non-money) exchanges that are going on around the LocalNames technology right now, and think about how to improve those, which can improve the uptake of LocalNames technology. Right now, you are in a mostly intangible-value exchange economy with LocalNames, which is still a rich and powerful economy. An economy that can potentially be leveraged to create explosive growth, as we’ve seen with many examples throughout human history.

When I look at the direction you are going in with LocalNames, I can see that you are close to laying the ground work for potential rapid uptake, because you are looking at tools like WordPress plugins, and using LocalNames with FireFox. This is something that Open Content Business Models wiki can help the LocalNames project with, if you’d like:

  • Creating a form of an SocialSynergy:OpenValueNetwork? around LocalNames, to help increase and multiply positive intangible and tangible value exchanges among people using it. This can be as simple as effectively spreading knowledge about new and best ways to use the technology, to something as complicated as routing and flowing money around.
  • Creating CommunityMarketing (PinkoMarketing?) around LocalNames projects to spread the idea.

Also, in the discussion on the LocalNames page between you and Mattis, it looks like you guys are saying that there is a vision that at some point I can take my LocalNames word database and combine it with yours, and maybe some others, and get a sort of faceted view of words. Do I have that right? Or, there could be a “shared” LocalNames that is kind of like TrustedLinkLanguage between a group of people who work together in different ways. They can possibly combine their LocalName data.

Another thing that might be worth investigating is a way of thinking about how a Localnames server can also incorporate MicroFormats.

Lion, I didn’t know about IBESI. I think it is great that many people are coming up with projects like this that lay foundations for incubation. IBESI has very similar goals to what I was looking at. Maybe they have slightly different approach. I will definitely at least follow the progress of IBESI with real enthusiasm. I would love to dicuss with BrandonCsSanders, although I can imagine he must be increadibly busy with al fo th eprojects I’ve seen him work on. Although, it would be cool to have him and TedErnst as guests on the future in a BarCampbank? flashmeeting, to talk about IBESI, BeyondYes, etc.

The idea (perhaps the “niche”) for Open Content business Models WikiHive is a space to experiment with and document real world application. A place to apply theory from other ThinkTank and TheoryBuilding spaces. And, I wanted it to become a KnowledgeCommons? of real world applications at the same time. Basically, a space to brainstorm and launch solutions as fast as possible, with real world projects, using OpenSource software solutions and building blocks, while building OpenBusiness theory at the same time. Most of the other projects that I am a part of were moving too slowly for me to try out these ideas, or launch this type of project. Or, goals were slightly different. But, all of them have an open KnowledgeCommons? appraoch, which means that I can rework these KnowledgeCommons? resources into real-world projects. So, I can synthesize knowledge from:

… and much more. OddMuse wiki with namespaces, or OddWiki sripts, is one of the fastest and most flexible ways to accelerate this, IMO. Although with some projects, I may use ProWiki or MoinMoin as alternative. And, I may use TeleCommunity software for some projects as a research tool, even though TeleCommunity software is not OpenSource. Or, as an OpenSource option, I am looking at ELGG along with OpenSource SocialBookmarking engines, like

QED Wiki

Wow, that QED wiki is really neat!

I have often wondered, “How can we make easy TransClusion or extension possible here?”

The problem with allowing transclusions, or, more generally, arbitrary HTML, on wiki pages, is security.

But, we have administrator passwords available to us: If we had a special page that allows for transclusion specifications, or pattern form macro definitions, (or something like that,) then we could get around this.

So then I would think we could make things that pull in Google Maps, or other web widgets, and so on.

Yes, Lion, it seems like everything is going in this direction. Extension of OddMuse actually is possible. There are already some really great extensions/modules. Some day, we should set up a programmer’s SandBox wiki, and give developers access to the server, to let people try out stuff. I’d be willing to set this up anytime people want to do it. Same for MoinMoin, and ProWiki development.

multilingual wikis

Hi sam, I’m happy that you like colors ;-)

If you want to visualize CW into the sidebar of MultilingualWiki, the right html would be:

CommunityWiki live <iframe src=“;idfil=25&amp;limit=50” width=“200” height=“130” scrolling=“no” frameborder=“0”></iframe> <div align=“right”><a href=“” target=”_parent” class=“style1”>Add or modify names/colors</a></div>

Olivier, thanks. Actually, I just plugged in random numbers because I couldn’t figure out which numbers pointed to aggregator for Multilingual wiki. Can you tell me hw ot embedd multilingual aggregator instead? thanks

This is it:

MultilingualWiki live <iframe src=“;idfil=25&amp;limit=50” width=“200” height=“130” scrolling=“no” frameborder=“0”></iframe> <div align=“right”><a href=“” target=”_parent” class=“style1”>Add or modify names/colors</a></div>

MultilingualSandWiki? live <iframe src=“;idfil=25&amp;limit=50” width=“200” height=“130” scrolling=“no” frameborder=“0”></iframe> <div align=“right”><a href=“” target=”_parent” class=“style1”>Add or modify names/colors</a></div>

In fact, it would also interesting to detect translation inputs [fr], [de], etc. but I don’t find it in the RSS feed. So we detect only the names of the translators.

Thanks Olivier, although;idfil=25&amp;limit=50 still seems to produce an aggregator for Communitywiki :)

Also, thank you very much for translating pages on MultiLingual? Wiki, Olivier :-)

Hi, I have some comments/suggestions about obm wiki hive. I just saw it today for the first time so these may be newbie suggestions fit to be ignored.

  • after skimming the first screen’s worth (through “How To Get Started With Developing Your Open Business Model Here”), the first thing i tried to do was browse through a list of all of the business model ideas which have been submitted. I read down through the page but didn’t find a link. Finally I saw a link at the top, near the links, grey on a black background, labeled “/ obm-wiki-list”. I think this link should be prominently mentioned and explained in the main text somewhere in the first three sections(“front page / blog”, “How to use this wiki”, or “How To Get Started With Developing Your Open Business Model Here”).
  • even after going to “/ obm-wiki-list”, I found that I was not there yet, and after reading that page, I realized I had to go to instead. So actually, the link from the front page should go to directly, rather than to
  • Even after I got to the page, there was a whole lot of explanation, rather than just the list. I’d recommend just putting the list alone on this page, with a link to another page labeled “Advanced” or something like that, and put all that explanation on the other page. Or at least put the lists on the top of the page, rather than the bottom.
  • The concept of having a wiki hive, one of whose wikis is an index wiki for other wikis in the hive, is probably way too advanced for most visitors. If is the “front page” for obm wiki hive, then perhaps you could just put the hive index somewhere locally on that wiki.
  • There’s something kind of strange about the text font which is most visible in the headings. It’s like it’s too spread out horizontally, like there is more space horizontally interposed between each letter than there should be.
  • Unrelated, perhaps the overall width of the text area should be slightly increased? When it’s as narrow as it is, you have to do a lot of scrolling to read a little bit of text, which is kind of intimidating (i.e. it makes each page look really long)
  • I found the layout of the front page, with the long static introduction followed by the blog, confusing. I kept skimming down it and then I got near the end of the static intro and I scrolled around and I thought, oh, here’s more, I guess I should read all that too. But the rest was blog entries. Even though you can tell when it becomes a blog entry because of the brightly colored dateline and “Blog” at the top right of each entry, I suggest that the transition in between the intro and the blog be made more salient, perhaps by a big thick line, with text above it (at the end of the intro section) saying something like, “the rest of this page is a blog”.
  • it’s not clear where to leave suggestions on obm wiki hive :)

Bayle, this feedback is tremendously valuable. It really helps. I’ve already applied some of the changes you’ve suggested. There will probably be more changes as I get more feedback from different people. But, I really like what you suggested. I’m very interested in helping to make the site findable, useable, credible and valueable to people who invest the time to read it and use it.

I’m going to try and refine the content style sheet as well, because it still has some small issues with jumbling up the SisterSites and NearLink content at the bottom. Thanks again, Bayle for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

Thanks Bayle. The fact that you “just saw it today for the first time so these may be newbie suggestions” fit for it not to be ignored. ;)

I added the hive-list to the bar on top on the obm-wiki-hive. It is an inclusion of the youngest day-page on obm-wiki-list: hive-list. Better now?

Sam, thanks for 2007-04-22. I agree, the TechnoSocialGap is a troubling phenomenon. Your post also generated a very interesting conversation.

Mattis, didn’t see your comment until now. I don’t see your inclusion, but there is now a link to from obm-wiki-hive:FrontPage, so now I can quickly find the list of hives, one way or another. Thanks.

Bayle, thanks for all of your suggestions and encouragement. Your post today also prompted me to talk with TheSheep about WikiCreole, and to install it and try it out on kabo wiki hive experiment.

If no conflicts arise with UseMod markup, I’ll apply it to all wikis.

Sam… You may be interested in this ‘partial’ answer to your question of February… Hwo:2007_BlikiNet?.

I just noticed that via OBM:WikiNetHiveChanges. I was able to convince media temple to install some missign RSS-related perl Modules that OddMuse uses to function, and so now recommend that server. This server does not give us full root access, but that is not necassarily needed.

Or, alternatively, I can recommend setting up a standalone VPS for you that does have full root access, running light httpd and fastcgi, in part so that changes and experiments going on at do not potentially have any affect on your performance. Also, some mirroring-related experiments may require full root access. But, setting up this VPS and installing OddMuse as a “hive” is very trivial.

I am open to trying any type of plausible automatic mirroring experiment you’d like, of course. Actually, I am open also to trying any type plausible of TransClusion and “MicroContent” experiments, for that matter.

Sam, I don’t remember which date-page it was on, but you were talking about us sharing “data” and so on.

I’m game. I think we should do it.

Also: See the comment I left at the bottom of HansWobbe’s page.


It is becoming clearer and clearer to me, every single day, the need for rich voice interaction.

We have to take this very seriously, I believe.

MattisManzel is way ahead of us, but I think we need something richer than TeamSpeak. I haven’t tried Gizmo yet.

You remember the SudburySchoolForAdults thing? I think we need to have that sort of interaction.

“Fortunately,” our interactions here in CommunityWiki are on the InterNet, and TheInternetIsSlow, living in slow-time, and so– in “just a few weeks” subjective internet time, we should have starfire-like interactive capabilities. It’s really what we need.

In the meantime: I am committed to the relationships we have established here.


I agree that Voice is important. It is, after all, an entirely different media, which has its own set of relative merits in comparision to other media. That being agreed, however…

  • It makes some sense to me to use “asynchronous” voice commnications which are nothing more than simple records ( *.WAV, *.MP3, …) - Think Voice mail.
    • These can be attached to a message or can be stored on a server or left on a telephone (in fact, I have frequently recorded a voice mail left for me as an MP3 and forwarded it to someone else, as an attachment to an email). There are quite a few environments that make sense.
    • One of the “features” (others may consider it a “shortcomming”) is that this leaves the recipient free to listen to it at their own convenience. I’m not promoting any such designs. Instead, I merely want to suggest that by breaking the communications problem up into its many constituent components, it is quite likely that existing tools can be effectively interfaced to provide a much richer solution than is currently being achieved in common practice. Think of this as an exercise in synthesis (as opposed to analysis).

P.S. Nice to see a post from you again.

Great thoughts, gentlemen. I am thinking about both of your ideas above. I think GizmoProject? could be a great way to go, as it allows people to conference for free, with an unlimited amount of participants (limited only to bandwidth capacity of the network). GizmoProject? also features voicemail (although it is not conferenced, but there might be a way to get Gizmo to export to a repository online for mutual listening.)

I’d like to suggest that we could do Gizmo/Wiki “tings”, with chat transcription, and notes taken on a wiki, maybe once a week, or every other week. We can explore multiple threads. I am interested in the data sharing, int HansWobbe’s ideas on raising funds by beating markets, SudburySchoolForAdults, and much of what is being discussed here on CommunityWiki. I’d like to dedicate some time to this group, and I’d like to eventually connect this group with others, who are interested in similar things, when connections can be mutually benficial. I am willing to spend time organzing, providing tools, etc.

In other news, my first attempt at OrganizedInquiry went well, although I am now convinced that certain types of software could ease the creation of the OrganizedInquiry archive/report.

Sam Rose, I just read this article via Slashdot, and I realized:

  • Their contest to help name the thing, also helps them publicize.
    • I contributed a name, and that gives me a personal feeling of minor ownership in the project, regardless of how minor that contribution was.
    • I’ll probably ask myself, “I wonder what the name ended up being?”

This works on numerous levels.

Perhaps there should be a PatternLanguage of techniques like this, for business. I know you have been collecting many other techniques, as well, such as revenue sharing models and so on.

Just a thought.

Lion, thanks! It just so happens that a project on OBM WikiHive, called Sloganeer is exploring something similar to this. Although, these examples of motivations you give above:

  • naming contest helps to publicize
  • personal feeling of “ownership” and conenction via contribution
  • attraction to see results of contest

Those are great points about possible motivations of naming contests which definitely apply to the Sloganeer project, and to the naming contest pattern open business pattern, Thanks again!

Sam's Method

Sam, I am always amazed at how skilled you are at connecting communities together.

Do you have any tips on how to do this?

Can I give you, say, 50 points on the InternetExchange, in exchange for you writing an article here on the subject? It might be: HowSamConnectsCommunities?, or something like that.

Well, thanks Lion, although I cannot really take too much credit, because it is the communities of people themselves that have such attractive features, ideas, and interesting people that draws others in. Much of what I am doing is just connecting people through ideas, which are BoundaryObjects? between groups (more on BoundaryObjects? later). a recent example of what i am doing is here:

(it would be great to have CommunityWiki folk feedback on what is in that link above)

Taking open ideas from places like CommunityWiki and P2PFoundation and CooperationCommons?,and bringing them to people who can do something with them, and then leaving an “AntTrail?” back to the places where they come from. I’ll be sure to fill in HowSamConnectsCommunities? with more detail soon, to take you up on your offer. I just got slammed with some really intensive, interesting, but good paying work, and I’ve been tied up with that. Be back soon to

BobLetcher here. Sam (and Lion). i seek your advice on my recent posting on Lion’s namepage on CommunityWiki, particularly the who/whether question in the first paragraph and the last sentence’s suggestion.

I’ve got an illness with a close family member that I am attending to rigth now. So, I may be absent for a bit, but I appreciate the discussions and ideas we’re sharing here, and I’ll be sure to pick up where we left off ASAP.


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