WikiAndArt

What wiki-like ideas can be found in the arts, or in creative projects in general ?


On CommunityMayNotScale, MattisManzel wrote :

When playing music with other musician you create a temporary communication space, a "sub-society" within society. Music has the big advantage to sound nice while wiki doesn't sound at all but has the advantage to be lasting whereas music is transient. Else they both seem far closer related to me than wiki and the mathematical formula for a graph. I wonder if a real fully exploited graph structure with every node connected to every knode even exists anywhere in nature or if it isn't but theoretical structure.
What ties music together is rythm, harmory and melody. As a musician you contribute your part to the "one big soup" and doing so you permanently hear the all-over result as well as you listen to what the other musicians do. All shape the whole all the time in music and on wiki. Stigmergy, mind the gap, bla. But you select when listening what other musicians do, you especially listen in your specific functional contex. This expresses also in the physical position of the musicians. A rythm section in a band is physically (or - if amplified - by the settings of the stage monitor system tuned during the soundcheck before a show) closer to each other. In a sinfony-orchestra the violoncelli and doublebasses are on the right side mostly carying a bigger part of the harmonic function of the music whereas first and second violins are placed on the left usually singing the melodies.
These functionalities exist just as well in a jam-session, which is compareable to the free and open scratch-wiki situation. This works with good musicians. One insensitive player already can spoil a jam-session, like one spoon of dish-washing soap spoils a soup. Wiki is open, newbies, trolls and spammers come and leave. These are kind of like weather, it exists, let it rain, the jam must go on. Trying to hook back in the music after a rolling thunder counts.
I remember playing Anton Webern orchestral works as a double-bass player on a tournee of the Junge Deutsche Philhaormonie sinfony-orchestra (in summer 89, no I'm not an active musician anymore). Webern (a new Vienna-school composer, 12-tone music, beginning of the 20th century) dissolves the traditional functionalities and disrupts the flow of expression for the musician in the orchestra, who is used to carry along a "thought" in harmony with the other musicians. Webern though still thinks in terms of the functionalities but his "melodies" are played by multiple, by all instrument in high fragmentation. As a player you count like a madman to get your entrance, you play a tone or two or part of a line, a fragment and then you have something like 15 bars of a pause before there's your next entrance. Making such fragmented music flow proofed pretty difficult, it takes a big habitual change to the musicians. When you first get used to it the experience of having melodic material permanently come from everywhere and not from restricted areas anymore it is astonishing. It's kind of meta-stereo.
What I want to say is that it might be interesting to repeat experiments on the level of wiki that have been done before in wiki-like arts, arts that create (temporary) "subsocieties" such as music, dancing and theatre, especially those forms largely involving improvised spontanous interaction.
Maybe we should move this to wiki and art or something? It would be nice to collect some ideas from art for experimenting around with on wiki.

And when just thinking about old musicians days I remember this comic-strip like idea I mainly used to terrorize the other folks in my band with (I had a couple of such "running jokes" running then, one of the few ways for me to fight back). This one involves a clichee view on chinese people as asumed to be very good in doing all the same at the same time and does like all clichees views in no case nessecarily apply to a single individum of the named group.
What I was wondering about then is what it would sound like if you had say a football stadium and 3000 Chinese in it, each with a Fender-Stratocaster (classic r'n r electric-guitar) and a Vox AC30 (classic r'n r and especially "dirty" tube amp) all together playing the riff of "I can't get no satisfaction". Which leads into wiki and flashmob. Surprising, fun, no harm. Imagine: wikilandia all together welcomes the next newbie on Meatball. "Hi, I'm David and this is my homepage." Next day David has 15 pages of "Hi David, welcome. Nice to have you here." and such. This might sound pretty silly to you, but I'm serious. Rhythm, rituals to create rhythm are simple. I can't get no satisfaction: |: E - E - eeE - eE e :| – Mattis Manzel


I'm not sure this is the right place to move this - maybe something like WikiLikeIDeas? ? Anyway.

I'm currently working on a wiki-like video game - the idea is to make an online game whose world is persistant and edited / created by users. (MultiUserDungeons? seem pretty close to that idea, though they predate wikis).

I also had been playing with the idea of a Comic-like wiki, or a wiki webcomic … a page where the "source" is not rendred as normal text, but transformed into images. Something like

 MattisManzel:Blablaabla
 LionKimbro:Yes, but bla
 DavidCary:I agree

… could be rendered as three cartoon characters with text bubbles coming out of their heads (This would be quite different from ThreadMode, since the dialogue itself would be the document - it would always be a finished dialogue, not waiting for answers). This is beyong my technical skills for now, but it's fun to kick the idea around (Hmm, dramatic identities could replace real users to make things more interesting …).

Anyway, any thoughts on wiki and art, or wikilike things ?

Good you moved it. Awful text, was late then, but wiki and arts, k. Spontaneous arts too, like stories about real-life wiki.

I just implemented something like that idea I talked about up there, on WikiDrama.


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