WikiMusic

The idea here is collaborative asynchronous recording of music, wherin you record your parts to a music editing software file, then upload it for others to add to. Each version of the file can be left online, so that people can revert back to older versions. I this is like wiki for music. It’s not hard to do. Perhaps someone is already doing it?

An open source multi-track music digital audio workstation program could be utilized, such as Ardour. All revisions could be saved, and a song could branch off into several directions, or it could maintain the same direction, or do both simultaneously.

Furthermore, members of the community can convert each file to a file useable by many different digital audio workstation programs (like Sonar, Pro Tools, Cool Edit, etc). Also, participants could add music tracks, or mix and/or master files. So, one song could have the possibility of becoming many different different end products.

OddMuse wiki software could be a possible good “front end” for song progression management/tracking. The files themselves could be uploaded to another server, but linked to via wiki. (Although, it would eventually be great to automate coordination between the tracking wiki and the media server).

A system for tracking songs through their evolution could simply be creating a unique name for the original song file, then adding a number to each revision. So a song could be called “Praxis”, then a modified version of “Praxis” could be called “Praxis 1” Then, a modified version of that could be called “Praxis 1 tentacle”, or whatever you want to name it, but keeping the lineage in the name so that it can be tracked backwards. Also, by keeping the lineage in the name, a “tree view” might be able to be generated.

Wiki software could lend itself very well to this, since there are already tools available to visualize links between pages. So, in wiki software, a page could be made for each modification of a song, with links backwards and forwards in it’s lineage.

See also AudioWiki.

Discussion

Does anyone know if something like this is already being done on a large scale basis?

Extending the wiki idea to new media such as audio and video was certainly a big topic at WikiSym 2006. People wanted it. Nobody had it.

Thanks Sam for this sexy idea. I know that for cubase, a comercial sequencer, already years ago existed ways to add online to a midi-song. Friends of mine and me just a little had been into midi then. I dunno how it’s now.

Kettenvideo.de is an interesting project I found a while ago. I made them a wiki rightaway but I didn't hit the "tone" to make them like the idea then, too nervous, anyhow.

Feel free to use the world-jam-wiki for the audio stuff, maybe.

Thinking about it; you can make it with day-page sets, better even diki. The last version determines the song. When making a new version the latest one gets copied in and you make your changes to it. Songs can fork by continuing the day-page set under a new name.

I wish that I could have made it to WikiSym, Alex. I didn’t know other people were thinking about stuff like this, but I am glad that they are.

The idea came from a discussion with some friends who were working on recordings in remote locations by simply uploading the file to a server online. I got to thinking about how wiki concepts could be applied to this. Then, I got to thinking about how actual wiki software could be used to track revisions.

Mattis, thank you, I will definitely use world-jam-wiki for the tracking end. The only thing I need to set up is a server with the capacity to handle the digital audio workstation files (maybe eventually http://ourmedia.org, or http://internetarchive.org might be interested in hosting the actual music files, but for now, I just want to have a demonstration space.) I already know some people who would be willing to experiment with this, and who also have access to digital audio workstation equipment.

You know that years ago, in the mid 1980’s, the band Wikipedia:Beat_Happening tried something similar to this, via mailing tapes around and getting people to add their tracks to the tapes, then forward it on to the next person in the mail.

Of course, the internet makes this easier to track, and digital recording expands the sonic possibilities. So, I am pretty excited to try this out!

I am also thinking that this idea could go two different ways: 1. Force people to all use one Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) platform 2. Create effective recipes for people to export from many different DAW’s, such as Ardour, Cubase, Sonar, ProTools?, Logic, etc.

Of course, #2 would be the best, in my opinion. For instance, the Ardour forums have one possible way for people using Ardour to export to foreign DAW environments: http://ardour.org/node/392

of course, this just exports the tracks, as far as I know, it doesn’t export the exact plugins/effects that people are using, nor what they are set at. So, for this, people would have to lay out on the wiki page which plugins they usd for which tracks, and how they set them, and also maybe an mp3 or wave or other file that people could listen to, to get an idea of what the iteratin sounded like.

Ultimately, it would be great to have the DAW be ONLINE itself, but I don’t think we are quite there yet in terms of interface technology (interfacing microphones and intruments) for real-time reocrding via a web app. It’s easier to synch up sequencers, or to create an online sequencer that could output co-editable files in a wiki-like environment. But for high quality sound recording, I think that WikiMusic would work best for the time being by having a desktop DAW, and sharing files in a wiki as describe above.

This is going to go live sometime after December 25, 2006. I’ve set up a server that can handle large files well, and I am going to try it out with some people locally. Everyone here is welcome to participate, too.

We’ll likely just use WAV files, and save the effects into the WAV to begin with. Later, we can try and figure out ways to work with plugins, etc.

WikiMusic is a great idea, I would like to join. There are however two aspects to keep in mind to ride the wave of the future:

(1) In the multimedia age, where even small devices, like ipods, i.e. video-enhanced mp3-players, handys, portable game consoles allow music clips (and games with game-music), it is important to include the visual part. Endproducts could be music-clips, screensavers, games.

(2) To give incentives to qualified peer producers and performers, to let them happily invest thousands of hours (and not only some sandboxing minutes), we should offer Micropayment or at least PayButtons? for donations as e.g. http://www.SourceForge.com does it.

This wonderful idea could lead to a true WikiWayOfLife and not to “Just Another Way Of Hobby Wikiing”. – FridemarPache 2006-12-23 16:58 UTC

This reminds me of:

http://RemixCommons.org Remix Commons is a network of free culture projects in the UK. Our aim is to get artists (working with music, video, images and text) to come together and share their work, be inspired by each others’ work, and ultimately to create “remixes”.
http://ccMixter.org This is a community music site featuring remixes licensed under Creative Commons, where you can listen to, sample, mash-up, or interact with music in whatever way you want.
http://FurtherNoise.org Colluding with artists, critical poets, noisemakers
http://Hydrogen-Music.org advanced drum machine
http://Jokosher.org …audio production made simple
http://AGNULA.org AGNULA’s main task is the development of a reference multimedia distribution for the GNU/Linux operating system completely based on Free Software as approved by the Free Software Foundation. It’s called DeMuDi? and is based on Debian.

I’m also always interested in hosting for any reason when the access policies (ownership and control of physical resources) are still under consideration.

About the .wav files: you might also use lossless (bit-wise reversible) audio compression such as FLAC which is part of the http://Xiph.org suite along with Ogg, Vorbis, Theora, Speex, etc.

Hi Pattrick, thank you for the excellent CreativeCommons links. Now we need a source/target for remixing (Flash-)graphics under similar CC conditions. For incentives I found an article, I tagged with [1],but had not yet the time to expand the tag combination with other site annotations nor the time to explore Sub TagCombinations. – FridemarPache 2006-12-24 01:37 UTC

Great ideas, Patrick and Fridemar, for sure. What I’ll do in the beginning is get the scripts and extensions going to create an OddWiki farm. And, I’ll let people experiment with creating a WikiMusic/Media net, with different licenses, etc. Perhaps there will be soem adjustments that can be made to OddMuse config for working with media like this. This is the type of thing that I want to explore in the beginning stages. Experimenting with rewarding artists is totally a core part of this idea. People can try out lots of different models. I want to also tie this to world-jam-wiki. Because, artists can use software like Ninjam to actually “jam”, and write and practice songs, and then use WikiMusic wiki to create a high quality multi track recording.

There are ways to set up a flash video server with mostly open source technology, sucha s http://blog.kovyrin.net/2006/10/08/lighttpd-memcoder-flvtool-for-streaming/

But, this will likely require a different type of server than the one that I going to be launching this WikiMusic experiment on. At this time, it is beyond my ability to fund a VideoWiki? server :(. That is, unless I can figure out how to mke it work using the current, kind of funky non-root access grid server set up that I am working with now. If not, it may be possible to use a combo of a small VPS and maybe Amazon Simple Storage for video data. I have friends who are into video editing that can help experiment with this. This same space could also include machinima, animation, almost anything visual. Here again, the wiki would be used mostly to track changes, and also display changes. More later.

Cool, well done. I give 10 € to the WikiMusicPiggyBank?. For the server, MicroPayment to musicians and such.

Define external redirect: ProTools VideoWiki PayButtons DeMuDi WikiMusicPiggyBank

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