new: 2021-03-10 21:50 UTCLionKimbro:

Kind of a place-holder for a page --

I want to talk about --

  • How confusing I find the Python package ecology to be.
  • But not just the Python package ecology – confusion really began in a big way for me around the Javascript ecology.
  • This dynamic of: “There’s a new system for doing things, every 2-3 years.”
  • The phenomenon of deeply nested package dependencies, resembling something like a crooked tower.
  • The huge problem that happened about a year ago (?) when someone’s tiny little package that supplies one single ultra-simple utility function was broken, and it resulted in tons of company’s code to break.
  • The phenomenon of – wading through myriad packages, all alike but with subtle differences; Trying to understand what is more important vs. what is less important.
  • Possible ways that the ecology could be made more… …human-comprehensible?
    • Perhaps starting with: “Is this intended just for you, for a small community, or for the world?” – perhaps by tags, or some other form of classification
  • I suspect that we just don’t know how to think about, organize, and visualize public offerings on a massive scale.

new: 2021-03-11 15:18 UTCTimurIsmagilov: I don’t really understand why the page is named WorkingOpenly.

new: 2021-03-10 21:50 UTCLionKimbro:

Oh, – it’s because: I don’t think we know how to Work Openly. I think it’s something that needs to be studied, thought about, and optimized, – and I don’t think we’re there yet.

Historically, most work was done either individually or by a small community, and then eventually by a corporation.

But I’m not too aware of historical works that were intended to be collaborations of large numbers of people across the Internet.

I’d be really interested in a review of: “Where, in history, did large numbers of people collaborate at a distance?”

It occupies a curious space between “the state” (which has the relationship of masses + alienation + necessary-interaction,) and “the corporation” (which has the relationship of people fitting pieces together, as a large(r) body, with payment as a motive,) and volunteer labor by just about anyone. It can be thought if in Cathedral vs. Bazaar terms (per ESR), “stygmery,” etc.,. But I think it’s a recognizable and optimizable state.

And I think it is optimizing. It’s just slow, and will take many decades to get much better.

See also


EditNearLinks: DependencyHell